Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 6076715" data-attributes="member: 6688937"><p>I think the complaint here is that "being valiant" requires facing risk. A power/style that grants you bonuses to do something like wade into combat necessarily reduces that risk. Which, I think, is just a problem with the character/PC/rules divide. So, if I understand the 4e position; <em>all </em>4e powers are metagame, the paladin isn't aware of power, but the player is. That's a different design than previous editions, where characters seem likely to be aware of most of the abilities on their sheet. (To the point where D&D parodies can use it as a joke.) It seems to me that a lot of the headier edition-skirmishing I see revolves around this very kind of point.</p><p></p><p>Which lead me to wonder; "Can you have a system that encourages Paladins to be Valiant and Fighters to be Brave etc., and yet still avoid meta ability-mechanics." The only one I can think of is an advancement system where you pick up extra levels (or XP) in a class by acting according to type. Which might be kinda neat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ratskinner, post: 6076715, member: 6688937"] I think the complaint here is that "being valiant" requires facing risk. A power/style that grants you bonuses to do something like wade into combat necessarily reduces that risk. Which, I think, is just a problem with the character/PC/rules divide. So, if I understand the 4e position; [I]all [/I]4e powers are metagame, the paladin isn't aware of power, but the player is. That's a different design than previous editions, where characters seem likely to be aware of most of the abilities on their sheet. (To the point where D&D parodies can use it as a joke.) It seems to me that a lot of the headier edition-skirmishing I see revolves around this very kind of point. Which lead me to wonder; "Can you have a system that encourages Paladins to be Valiant and Fighters to be Brave etc., and yet still avoid meta ability-mechanics." The only one I can think of is an advancement system where you pick up extra levels (or XP) in a class by acting according to type. Which might be kinda neat. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
Top