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*Dungeons & Dragons
4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6076998" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Yeah, IMHO though there has always been a lot of this stuff. PCs have had "once a day" abilities since time immemorial. Why in fact does the Cleric's god only grant him CLW a certain number of times and not enough times for the execution of his god's aims? MUCH of the game was always game, and gamist, and explained only secondarily in terms of the world. Much of the world itself was and is for that matter defined in terms of what makes a good game. At some level it is ALL meta. So I always found the whole concept that there was any deep dichotomy between 4e and 1e say to be at best HIGHLY subjective. </p><p></p><p>In any case the vast majority of the 4e powers that a fighter will have are easily understandable in terms of hitting things with weapons, albeit they can be somewhat fantastical. When you look at the activity of the character AS A WHOLE, there's not all that much 'meta' about the results at all, nor all that vastly different from earlier edition fighters (maybe its a bit more fantastic, depends on your style of play probably). Your level 3 fighter has a daily, at least one AP, several uses of encounter powers, etc all mushed together in a mix of attacks, hits, buffs, debuffs, crits, AP use, etc. If you reduce the narrative to its purely in-world form you can't tell that the fighter has a daily, 3 encounter powers, a utility power, 2 at-wills, and an AP every other fight on average. In other words it is a pretty darn successfully integrated meta. This is a whole mini-industry of 4e criticism that just baffles me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6076998, member: 82106"] Yeah, IMHO though there has always been a lot of this stuff. PCs have had "once a day" abilities since time immemorial. Why in fact does the Cleric's god only grant him CLW a certain number of times and not enough times for the execution of his god's aims? MUCH of the game was always game, and gamist, and explained only secondarily in terms of the world. Much of the world itself was and is for that matter defined in terms of what makes a good game. At some level it is ALL meta. So I always found the whole concept that there was any deep dichotomy between 4e and 1e say to be at best HIGHLY subjective. In any case the vast majority of the 4e powers that a fighter will have are easily understandable in terms of hitting things with weapons, albeit they can be somewhat fantastical. When you look at the activity of the character AS A WHOLE, there's not all that much 'meta' about the results at all, nor all that vastly different from earlier edition fighters (maybe its a bit more fantastic, depends on your style of play probably). Your level 3 fighter has a daily, at least one AP, several uses of encounter powers, etc all mushed together in a mix of attacks, hits, buffs, debuffs, crits, AP use, etc. If you reduce the narrative to its purely in-world form you can't tell that the fighter has a daily, 3 encounter powers, a utility power, 2 at-wills, and an AP every other fight on average. In other words it is a pretty darn successfully integrated meta. This is a whole mini-industry of 4e criticism that just baffles me. [/QUOTE]
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