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4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6077027" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>There are certainly some pretty meta-gamey specific things. CaGI really CAN be a lot like that for instance, and rogue powers move that way somewhat more than fighter powers. OTOH I think even if you're a warlord a lot of it can look a whole lot like "oh, I just told Joe to dodge left instead of right" ('slides' Joe to the left). I mean it kinda depends on how much you're willing to consider the mechanics to be provisional at times, the fighter might have moved left, but the warlord retconned that, he never DID go left, he went right. I'm not sure that's really meta-game, though it could be jarring for some people I guess. </p><p></p><p>Of course the "how meta-game is healing" thing can go on forever. Clerics can cower behind "its magic" to some extent, but again there's no logic for why the 1e cleric can't just keep pumping the heals out to the faithful all day. Interestingly enough the 4e cleric CAN pump them out almost all day! Maybe he's LESS meta-gamey, lol. The Warlord hasn't the fig leaf of explicit magic, but at least IMHO Inspiring Word et al still has more than just game logic going for it. You can certainly invent situations where it works in which the "it isn't magic at all" mantra just won't fly, but is this really making 4e more meta-gamey than say 1e? Didn't seem like it to me, but YMMV of course.</p><p></p><p>I think in general a lot of things didn't just instantly pop about 4e. I mean, yeah, I could see it was different from day one, but it did take some play before it all started to really make sense. I've had a few players that still don't 'get' the game that well, though oddly enough the one I'm thinking of is perfectly happy playing it, lol.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6077027, member: 82106"] There are certainly some pretty meta-gamey specific things. CaGI really CAN be a lot like that for instance, and rogue powers move that way somewhat more than fighter powers. OTOH I think even if you're a warlord a lot of it can look a whole lot like "oh, I just told Joe to dodge left instead of right" ('slides' Joe to the left). I mean it kinda depends on how much you're willing to consider the mechanics to be provisional at times, the fighter might have moved left, but the warlord retconned that, he never DID go left, he went right. I'm not sure that's really meta-game, though it could be jarring for some people I guess. Of course the "how meta-game is healing" thing can go on forever. Clerics can cower behind "its magic" to some extent, but again there's no logic for why the 1e cleric can't just keep pumping the heals out to the faithful all day. Interestingly enough the 4e cleric CAN pump them out almost all day! Maybe he's LESS meta-gamey, lol. The Warlord hasn't the fig leaf of explicit magic, but at least IMHO Inspiring Word et al still has more than just game logic going for it. You can certainly invent situations where it works in which the "it isn't magic at all" mantra just won't fly, but is this really making 4e more meta-gamey than say 1e? Didn't seem like it to me, but YMMV of course. I think in general a lot of things didn't just instantly pop about 4e. I mean, yeah, I could see it was different from day one, but it did take some play before it all started to really make sense. I've had a few players that still don't 'get' the game that well, though oddly enough the one I'm thinking of is perfectly happy playing it, lol. [/QUOTE]
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