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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6078386" data-attributes="member: 6668292">Well, there's a couple extra conversations going on at once, in regards to paladins. The one I'm most interested in is the whole "4e doesn't punish you, it encourages you" thing. I think it's valid in one sense, in that there is a certain "carrot and the stick" thing going on, here. On the other hand, both the 3e and the 4e have mechanics that encourage you to act certain ways. In 4e, you have Valiant Strike, etc., and in 3e, you have the code, the aura (stay close to allies), turn undead (fight undead), and smite evil (fight against evil). There's definitely a theme in 3e, but I'm not sure it's "theme" in the sense that you use the word on these boards.But, to be fair, I don't think most posters using "theme" are using the word the same way you may be, even if they're "agreeing" with you, so I think that just jumbles up this conversation even more.Well, again, not necessarily. It could be overconfident or arrogant (running into enemies you think you can handle). Or survivalist (I can fight harder when I'm surrounded, even if I don't run into it). Or guard-like (let myself get surrounded to keep things off other people). If it was "+1 to hit per adjacent enemy, but only if you charge" or something, I could see "valiant" or "arrogant" more strongly emphasized.These might all seem "brave" in a sense, but, the thing is, while the power is encouraging you to take a particular action, it's not commenting on the motivation for that action. For example, take a Paladin with Valiant Strike, who is surrounded by 4 enemies that can move slightly faster than he can. He can move away (provoking attacks), and they can move after him. This might repeat over and over, and is a losing proposition for him. So, fight is smarter than flight, right now. He attacks with Valiant Strike, but it's not because he wants to stay; he simply attacks because running is suicide.While Valiant Strike can definitely be used to show a form of bravery, I don't think the mechanic encourages anything more than a particular action -fighting multiple enemies. The motivations for engaging in that action are yet to be decided, and thus divorced from an inherent "theme". At least, that's how I see it.I think he was saying that 3e and 4e were the same in this respect -they both encourage particular actions, giving you mechanical incentives to act in a particular way in-game when playing that class. 4e and Valiant Strike, 3e and fight evil, etc. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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