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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6078746" data-attributes="member: 87792">See below.Arms and armour.  You mean that even numbered editions do interesting stuff like Planescape and Athas?The most magic weapons are swords issue below is also a balance swing against the cleric.Fafhrd isn't even a thief.  It's getting the wizard's apprentice (who never casts anything remotely vancian) in there that's the problem for The Grey Mouser in anything but 4e - in 4e he just has the ritual caster feat.One look at him tells me he fights with paired swords most of the time, but has a shortbow for backup, and is stealthy, athletic, and agile.  You won't like it, but combine the focus on stealth with Style: Two Weapon (and despite your THAC0 with melee and ranged your swords being way better than your shortbow) and I'm going to say "Scout".  (I could also say "Ranger" as easily).  I'm also going to say Level 10 because I think I can get all the abilities in there.  (As it turns out I missed precisely one).  I'm also saying scout for a second reason - backstab isn't sneak attack; backstab is a one shot high damage thing.  Sneak attack is a round on round ability.And partly to keep his roguelike nature, I've taken three multiclass feats into rogue.  Stats are exactly the same.Going through your class abilities:Backstab:  Covered by the one shot sneak attack from multiclassing, a choice of stance: Aspect of the Lurking Spider (+2 Stealth, +5 to climb, +2 damage with combat advantage on a basic attack - shortbow or longsword) or even Aspect of the Dancing Serpent (+1 to hit and damage against isolated foes, a free shift at the end of your turn).  This has, however, been nerfed from a L20 2e thief, but is a lot more reliable.Climb Walls: Athletics +12 (trained) with a further +5 to climb when in aspect of the Dancing Serpent.  Mountain Guide furthers your climbing mastery (and isn't restricted to mountains)Detect Noise: Perception +12 (trained) with a further +2 when in Aspect of the Soaring Hawk stanceHide In Shadows/Move Silently: Both are covered by Stealth - +15, with a further +2 when in Aspect of the Lurking Spider (you can switch between aspects freely).  But there's more than just a high number here.  You also have Reactive Stealth (at the start of an encounter if you have any cover or concealment you get an automatic stealth check), and Twilight Adept (1/encounter you can go hidden where no one else can)Find Traps: Uses Perception - as Detect Noise you're damn good at this.Open Locks/Disable Device/Pick Pockets: All come under the heading of thievery.  +15 - you're damn good at this too.Read Languages: Practiced Study feat gives you Martial Practices, and the one of those you know is ... the Read Languages practice.Scroll Use: I wish I could say I have this.  Unfortunately it's the only sacrifice you've made other than numbers being slightly lower for being level 10 (there's a Martial Practice allowing you scroll use with your thievery skill but it's higher level).Thieves' Cant: Secret language of thieves isn't in 4e. Followers: You don't get them automatically - but you have none listed anyway.Your racial abilities are pretty much covered by being an elf (Infravision has turned into low light vision, secret doors to the perception bonus, to hit bonus to Elven Accuracy) - I had to take Superior Will to cover the resistance (it lets you shrug off such mind effecting stuff more easily)Non Weapon ProficienciesAncient History: You are trained in historyAppraising: Doesn't exist in 4e.  Use history or thievery - you're trained in both.Dancing: Doesn't exist as a separate skill.  If you needed to roll something of the sort you'd roll Acrobatics (you're trained).Disguise: Specialty of Bluff - you're trained in bluff.Ettiquette: Doesn't exist in 4e.  Roll bluff to convince people you fit - you're trained in bluff.Jumping: You're trained in Athletics.  Covers climbing, jumping, and swimming.Riding, Land: I specifically stayed away from nature abilities - and didn't take the mounted combat feat as I wasn't sure whether you used this as riding proficiency (everyone can ride) or for going above and beyond for riding in combat and trick riding.Tightrope Walking: You not only have Acrobatics trained, you have the Perfect Balance utility power.Tumbling: You have Acrobatics trained.  You can also tumble past enemies easily; you have Invigorating Stride (gives you a shift and uses your second wind as a move action), Aspect of the Dancing Serpent (a free 1 square shift at the end of your turn), and Sly Dodge (helps you avoid opportunity attacks)Languages: A perfect match.Things on the new character sheet that might be questionable:Scout: You have absolutely no training in nature.  (You do in dungeoneering)Wilderness Tracker: If you take five minutes to look at an area you can see how many people have been there.  Doesn't have to be wilderness - and really useful in the city.Mountain guide: You can climb well and show others how to climb.  Doesn't matter whether you're going up a mountain or over a wall.Aspect of: Who cares about the name?  The effects all fit.So that's literally almost everything covered barring scroll use, thieves cant, and me not knowing how you used riding.  Some of the numbers are low - this is a level 10 rather than a level 20 version because I couldn't be bothered to faff around with paragon paths when everything looked as if it fitted on a heroic tier character.Amusingly enough:Hit points: Yours: 66.  Mine: 72AC: Yours: -6.  Mine: 25 (or -5).Shortbow with Backstab/Sneak Attack: Yours: 1d6*5. (avg: 17.5)  Mine: 1d8+6+2d6+2 (avg: 19.5)Alpha Strike TWF (vs medium target): Yours (d8+4)*5 + d6+5 (avg: 51).  Mine: 2d8+12+3d6+14 (avg: 45.5).Even the combat numbers aren't that far off each other - at least on your backstab turn.  And I didn't look at them at all as I was building.Also given just how little damage your shortbow does there (1d6) I'm going to reject your earlier claims that not being able to use the short bow with more than a ranged basic attack doesn't reflect your character when porting to 4e.  Your shortbow does less than half of the damage of either your longsword or your shortsword.  You need a full backstab for it to be able to keep up rather than be a comparatively trivial afterthought.  If anything it's the conversion to 3e, in which your shortbow is as effective as your other weapons, that is the broken conversion.====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======Rem 1, level 10Elf, ScoutTwo-Weapon Style: Flashing Blade MasteryRanger Wilderness Knacks: Ambush ExpertiseRanger Wilderness Knacks: Mountain GuideLevel 4 Wilderness Knack: Watchful RestLevel 8 Wilderness Knack: Wilderness TrackerElf Subrace: Wood ElfSelect option: Elven AccuracySelect option: Wood Elf Reactive StealthBackground: Birth - Prophecy (History class skill)FINAL ABILITY SCORESStr 15, Con 15, Dex 20, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 15.STARTING ABILITY SCORESStr 15, Con 15, Dex 16, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 14.AC: 25 Fort: 20 Reflex: 23 Will: 21HP: 72 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 18TRAINED SKILLSDungeoneering +10, History +11, Perception +12, Acrobatics +15, Athletics +12, Thievery +15, Stealth +15, Bluff +12UNTRAINED SKILLSArcana +6, Diplomacy +7, Endurance +7, Heal +5, Insight +5, Intimidate +7, Nature +7, Religion +6, Streetwise +7FEATSLevel 1: Master at ArmsLevel 2: Sneak of ShadowsLevel 4: Twilight AdeptLevel 6: Sly DodgeLevel 8: Practiced StudyLevel 10: Superior WillPOWERSScout aspect of the wild (scout) 1: Aspect of the Lurking SpiderScout aspect of the wild (scout) 1: Aspect of the Soaring HawkLevel 2 Scout Utility Power: Invigorating StrideLevel 6 Scout Utility Power: Perfect BalanceScout aspect of the wild (scout) 7: Aspect of the Dancing SerpentITEMSCloak of Displacement +2, Magic Leather Armor +3, Guarding Longsword +2, Magic Short sword +3, Distance Dagger +1, Foe-Seeking Bow Shortbow +1, Adventurer's Kit, Handy Haversack (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Rope of Climbing (heroic tier)====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======He's not that bad.  He only loses them for the day.  But it's pretty crippling for a would be fighter.</blockquote>

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