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*Dungeons & Dragons
4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6078901" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Why? 4e works perfectly fine for this sort of scene-framing/character advocacy style of play right out of the box without any need to adjust the game in any meaningful way. The game is built for it. That's been one of the primary criticisms OF the game since day one - that people don't want this sort of thing in D&D. </p><p></p><p>I do think you're off base in the comparison because other editions of D&D were never fine with process sim based play. The group had to do all sorts of hand waving and overlooking the rules all over the place to get the system to do process sim based play. The basic rules of the game have never supported process sim play out of the box. Hit Points, combat mechanics, economy, the exponential power curve of characters, on and on, the game will fight you every step of the way to try and do process sim play.</p><p></p><p>That would be the primary difference. People have internalized just how far they've drifted D&D into process sim play by all sorts of means, and then try to turn around and claim that these concepts have always been present. Which is why you get the comments asking why you would ever use D&D for this sort of play. OTOH, 4e works for scene-framing/character advocacy style of play right of the box and isn't shy about letting you know that. Dozens, if not more, meta-game powers, healing mechanics, hit points, combat, skill challenges, etc. Heck, even the whole "Say Yes" push in 4e supports this.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6078901, member: 22779"] Why? 4e works perfectly fine for this sort of scene-framing/character advocacy style of play right out of the box without any need to adjust the game in any meaningful way. The game is built for it. That's been one of the primary criticisms OF the game since day one - that people don't want this sort of thing in D&D. I do think you're off base in the comparison because other editions of D&D were never fine with process sim based play. The group had to do all sorts of hand waving and overlooking the rules all over the place to get the system to do process sim based play. The basic rules of the game have never supported process sim play out of the box. Hit Points, combat mechanics, economy, the exponential power curve of characters, on and on, the game will fight you every step of the way to try and do process sim play. That would be the primary difference. People have internalized just how far they've drifted D&D into process sim play by all sorts of means, and then try to turn around and claim that these concepts have always been present. Which is why you get the comments asking why you would ever use D&D for this sort of play. OTOH, 4e works for scene-framing/character advocacy style of play right of the box and isn't shy about letting you know that. Dozens, if not more, meta-game powers, healing mechanics, hit points, combat, skill challenges, etc. Heck, even the whole "Say Yes" push in 4e supports this. [/QUOTE]
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4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
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