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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 6140853" data-attributes="member: 23484">I find the attitudes expressed about chase scenes in rpgs here interesting, since they are so far from my gameplay experience. In cinema, chases are hugely compelling, and can push all the right buttons (for me, at least). This is true whether they are seen as an extension of combat (e.g. the precredit parkour sequence in Casino Royale) or as an ongoing overland track-and-pursuit (e.g. "Who are those guys?" in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid), or whether the PCs are pursuing or being pursued (same examples). The question becomes why doesn't that translate well into D&D, especially when chases are naturally compelling in other rpg systems (esp. FATE). I see three factors at work:1. Urgency and terrain. Part of the appeal of a chase is the varied terrain. If the PCs are the pursued, then the choices they are making leave the chase route uncertain, and we get the (brilliantly named, @permerton) "Shroedinger's terrain" problem. There exists a tension between the cool landscapes and obstacles and the need for speedy decision making. If the players have time to strategize about the best course to take, the urgency of running for your life naturally evaporates. But players don't want to make un-clever un-optimized choices. --> a compelling chase needs non-random terrain established, and it needs the players to make choices with inadequate information on the fly. There must be the possibility of disadvantageous results, without the appearance of randomness (which removes meaning from the choices being made). Without a separate subsystem, this requires a lot of work by the DM, and a willingness for the players never to experience much of it.2. Line of sight. The pursuer must be able to see the pursued, either directly or indirectly. For the pursued, remaining undetected is the victory condition, not necessarily achieving a certain distance from the pursuer. In D&D, though, there are problems: there are great differentials in basic senses in some circumstances but not in others. 60' darkvision vs. 30' darkvision is a big difference, but it is presumed that everyone except a kobold can see any unobscured object in daylight. And there are magical solutions as well (plus Ranger tracking, etc.).--> a compelling chase needs both more granularity in senses (with clear mechanisms for seeing imperfectly through crowds, or distinguishing between similar-looking pursueds) and the possibility to fail. In D&D skills and abilities should cover this (between bluff, sense motive, etc., vision and tracking abilities). But their importance has to come into play for a chase to be compelling. The problem is that D&D characters usually have all-or-nothing here, and the game's focus on optimization means that one side will typically start with an overwhelming advantage over the other, which is less fun.3. Speed. Speed is also crucial, and it is a difficult thing to optimize in D&D. Having a high move speed is a significant advantage, and is a difficult thing to specialize in. A Barbarian or monk or wood elf has an advantage, and there is little else in the game that encourages optimization for speed (since you are usually only as fast as the slowest party member). So improving speed requires a substantial investment, and offers (arguably) a restricted payoff. Those that haven't made such an investment are going to be bad at chases, and bad in a precisely quantifiable degree. --> The quantified move speeds mean that with any difference between pursuer and pursued, the chase is measured in a handful of rounds. It's hard to extend beyond this. In D&D it is unusual to optimize for speed, but that is the single biggest factor in a chase (and endurance -- the ability to last, as measured off Constitution, perhaps.)The mechanics of D&D itself pose challenges to a successful chase. A subsystem that doesn't recognize these three issues at least, is going to remain uncompelling, in my view.    (Since beginning this post, I see @manbercat has contributed with a helpful overview that summarizes helpfully how chases can be handled in other systems. Thanks!)</blockquote>

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