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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9753096" data-attributes="member: 7030563">I played lots of AD&D as well, a 2024 high level fighter is far more impervious to effects that a 1E fighter is.  Aside from generally having a higher chance of making a save due to things like 2024 Indomitable, Heroic Inspiration, feats and tons of ways to get bonuses, advantage or even immunity, they also have way more opportunities to save.  High level effects in 1E sometimes had no save at all, and when they had a save if you failed it you were out of the fight for good, game over.  It is not the save every round or save every time you take damage or save until the bad guy loses concentration that is typical of 5E debilitating effects.Things like Trap The Soul, Imprisonment, Temporal Stasis and Maze* had no save in 1E.Even when they did have a save it was still worse.  A 20th level Fighter in 1E needed a 9 to save against the Hold Monster spell.  You might think that is a fairly easy save, but when he failed it (40% of the time) he did not get to reroll with heroic inspiration, he did not get to automatically pass it due to a feat, he did not get to add 20 and most importantly if he failed it he was out for well over 10 turns.  No more saves, no trying to break the bad guys concentration, just immobilized for however many turns the caster has as levels.  Oh and if he made the save he was still slowed, again for the whole fight with no other saves!Domination was a psionic ability in 1E (not a spell).  A 20th level fighter needed a 6 to save against it, but again if he failed that was it ..... he was dominated until the bad guy ran out of psionic points.*Maze doesn't have a save in 2024 5E either, but a fighter is rarely going to spend more than a few turns there .... or 1 turn if he is a champion.  He is going to escape from it quicker than any other class.</blockquote>

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