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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9754565" data-attributes="member: 7030563">And like I said, most of them are better controllers than FightersA 2014 20th level Fighter gets 8 attacks with action surge.  With a 2d6 weapon those are going to do 96 damage if all hit and if the monster is not resistant, which a lot are at this level and he can do it 2 turns in a row.A 20th level Long Death Monk can do 120 in turn 1 and 98 in turn 2.A 20th level Drunken Master can do 73.5 for 20 straight turnsI did not say all of them were "outright" better uses of ki and not even all of them use ki (maybe most don't use ki?).  All of them are situational as is FOB and SS.I will say it again here.  Note the underlined:"In tier 4 all of these things are generally more powerful than Stunning Strike or Flurry of Blows. For the ones that are available at lower levels it is not true for all of them at lower levels."I stand by that.  At high level the things I mentioned are all generally more powerful than Stunning Strike or Flurry of Blows.A lot of this is underpinned exactly by what you said earlier - Stunning Strike and Flurry of Blows are not that great at high level, it is not that hard to be better than them.  All of the things I mentioned are generally better than them.  Some of them are WAY better.Of the three you mentioned:Quivering Palm is 3ki and does a minimum of 55 damage, with a failed save it kills any enemy.  Compare this to FOB which does 10.5 or 31.5 over 3 rounds if you spend 3 ki and hit every time or Stunning Strike which usually does nothing at this level.Tranquility is a permanent Sanctuary every day until you break it and it costs no resources.Wholeness of body heals you 60 points at 20th level and uses no ki.At high level those things are GENERALLY better than stunning strike or FOBStunning Strike and especially Flurry of Blows demonstrably suck at 20th level.  The term "better" does not mean awesome when you are comparing it to something that is not a good high-level feature.  Some of the features I listed are awesome, some are not, but all of them are just GENERALLY better than FOB and SS at level 20, but that is not a very high bar.</blockquote>

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