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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9754625" data-attributes="member: 7030563">No they are not way better than Monks.If you want damage Drunken Master is not even a very good Monk, but it will outdamage a fighter by quite a bit as you can do 7 attacks like every round and your attacks are more likely to hit to boot.Ok add that stuff in, redo the math considering that stuff and post it here ..... except for magic items and feats as those would apply both ways.In this discussion we are also not including what movement and saving throws do for you.  Fighters, particularly melee Fighters, have a much more difficult time getting into range to be extremely effective.  This is because they have slower movement and they get fear locked or charm locked a lot easier and that happens often at high level.  High level Monks have the best movement in the game and the best Wisdom saves in the game and even when they do actually fail they can cancel it with an action.The raw numbers here look close, but in play they are actually not that close when you consider other factors influencing how effective a Fighter can be. No, at high level the Monk has better ways to actually connect long term through Focused Aim because it uses fewer resources.And a Drunken Master, which is a relatively weak Monk can make 7 attacks a round at will at 20th level ... not just when they action surge.And the Fighter only does 96 damage if he hits with all 8 attacks, where there is still haldf damage on a save.  He loses 55 damage the first round and 44 on the second round with a made save.  When you consider accuracy I still think that will outrun a fighter in most cases ... and it has the two times I've seen it used.More things are resistant to piercing, bludgeoning and slashing.Sure that is what Nova is.You have a 60 foot move.And you need 5 whole turns, and 2 more ki, to do as much damage from Flurry of Blows as you would get on a failed save.You are claiming Flurry of Blows is better at level 20.  It is not better at 20th level, it is substantially worse.No but it will ALWAYS do more damage than Flurry of Blows and it will ALWAYS have a better effect than stunning strike under the same conditions.Please try to explain to me why these are better.  You said they are better, now back it up!No it is not.  Flurry of Blows is one more attack than you would otherwise have without Flurry of Blows unless you have a subclass ability that makes it better (Open Hand has such an ability, but it is a control function, not a damage function).Without FOB you can make one attack with a Bonus action if you take the attack action.  With FOB you can take 2 attacks with a Bonus action if you take the attack action.  FOB only gets you one more attack a turn, and the damage it adds is only 1 attack compared to not using either Martial Arts or Ki Fueled Attack.One more attack at 20th level is 10.5 damage (not accounting for accuracy).It does not suck worse than FOB or SS at 20th level.An average adventuring day includes about 8000 rounds where you are not resting, of those you are in combat and would conceivably take the attack action less than 100 rounds.  That gives you over 7900 rounds where this is not competing with the attack action.Even if you are in combat though, being able to heal yourself 60 points is still better than the minimal damage increase you get from FOB.Also while I am at it I will note FOB uses your bonus action and you need to take a specific action to do it and you need to use a ki.I never said they were "awesome" you know this and you are purposely twisting what I said.I said they are generally better than FOB and SS at 20th level and they are.  If they are not then explain to me why Stunning Strike or FOB are better instead of pointing out how bad these other abilities are.Oh and by the way Colby, who you brought up earlier disagrees with you on everything that Monks get being bad - "Monks get a lot of cool and useful abilities"At least when I claim someone said something, they actually did say it.</blockquote>

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