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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9754796" data-attributes="member: 7030563">No they are not.Yes you can, you can move between your attacks.  The only way you are not getting them is if they are not close enough to you.But there are magic items that boost unarmed strikes.  There are magic items for both.Further if you are talking about what feats and magic items provide, or what species provide you are talking about things outside the basic class.You are not counting accuracy in here.  GWM is not going to add 80.  On some enemies it will add less than 1.But they still are way more vulnerable to this.  Not a little bit a lot.  A Monk is going to have a 20 Wisdom at this level and can reroll a fail and can cancel Fear or Charmed with an action.If a Fighter with say a 14 Wisdom and Resilient Wisdom walks into a fight with say for example an Ancient Red Dragon he has a base 35% chance of making that save and being able to close and fight.  On average it is round 3 before he gets into Melee without help from someone else.A Monk on the other hand with a 20 Wisdom has an 80% chance of making that save with the reroll from Diamond Soul. Further he automatically cancels the frightened as an action in the unlikely chance he doesn't save.  He is usually in the fight in round 1 and always in the fight in round 2.With disadvantage and if you have a high Wisdom probably without a high damage modifier either.It is notNeither of these can be used as often as ki focused aim.  Precision attack is more effective when used.  Trip attack is not very effective for improving accuracy at this level due to the Strength saving throw.Not nearly 225because they are not part of the class.Nope worse accuracyThe Monk class includes mechanics that make its attacks magical, the fighter class does not have this and there are creatures that are immune to all BPS (although few high level ones if you are restricting yourself to WOTC 2104 monsters)I don't see how you are getting 84 damage from a normal FOB, not counting subclass.  You use no ki and do 37 each round (if you take the attack action), so FOB is 10.5 a round.97 is more than 84 isn't it?  I think it is.Also the 84DPR assumes all 8 attacks hits, the damage QP does only needs 1 of 4 attacks to hit, so it is not an apples-to-apples comparison .... but it is more.Also at 20th level 3 ki is really almost nothing on an open hand Monk.So more, so it is better like I said!No, that is worst case scenario for QP.  Best case it fails its save and loses all of its hit points.I never said Quiveing Palm was a Nova feature.  I said it is generally better than FOB and it is.Your main problem is you don't seem to be paying attention to what I am posting.Sure and as demonstrated above it does more damage, even on a made save.You did 55 if the target fails its save, or all its hit points if it doesn't, which is moreI am the one of us who actually has a lot of experience playing at this level, playing many sessions with high level Monks (and every other class) at the table and basing my conclusions on experience instead of theorycrafting and 2 one-shots.  If someone in this discussion is out of their depth it is not me, it is you.You actually claimed to know what I like more than I do and that I was wrong when I said I liked the 2014 Fighter more and now you are saying that I am out of my depth?He said Monks are the worst class in the game [overall], which is what I even said way back in the very first post you replied to.  If you look overall at every level from 1-20 Monks are the weakest class.  I agree with that and Colby agrees with that.What you claimed, and have still not provided evidence of, is that he and 3 others said it was the worst class in tier 4.  I am still waiting for that.  I searched their websites for it and could not find it.Monks are the strongest non-caster in tier 4.I don't need to prove anything.  I know that Monks are not the weakest non-caster in tier 4.  They are below average overall, but they are the best of the 4 non-casters.</blockquote>

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