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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 28511" data-attributes="member: 996">It seems pretty clear from the rules that you only get to take the coveted 5' step if you take no other movement in the round.AFAICT, there are two issues clouding this.&nbsp; 1) Is the extra partial action from Haste part of the same round?2) Wouldn't taking a move /after/ you've 5' stepped cause the 5' step to become part of a regular move, and thus provoke a para-temporal AoO, and isn't that icky?Second objection first:&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; Para-temporal AoOs are a fact of life in 3E, and not just because of a 5' step, and not just when Haste is involved.&nbsp; Take something as simple as withdrawing from combat.&nbsp; Make a double move and the first square doesn't count as threatened, simple, no?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; Say you move the first half of that normal move and see, from you new vantage point an enemy that you'd really like to take shot at or cast a spell on.&nbsp; You've only moved a regular move, you have a standard action left, but, if you go and take it, you get retroactively AoO'd.&nbsp;&nbsp; First problem:&nbsp; It's been suggested, enthusiastically, by several people (including the Sage, aparently, though I haven't seen a direct quote), that the extra Partial Action from Haste amounts to a sepparte (very short) round.&nbsp; Thus, the one-5'-step-round doesn't aply, and you can take one in each.This opens up a world of abuse.&nbsp; There are a lot of decision you have to make for the round.&nbsp; For instance, Expertise &amp; Power Attack require you to distribute BAB for the whole round.&nbsp; But, if the Haste action and regular action are partitioned, you&nbsp; can Full Attack for a round, then, on your extra partial action, fight defensively and max out your expertise, oh, and the bonus from your /Defender/ weapon.&nbsp; Only one of your attacks is penalized, but all your opponents attacks will be against the higher AC.&nbsp; Casting a Full-Round spell?&nbsp; No problem, it takes effect right before your partial action, which you can then use to cast a standard action spell.&nbsp; Reach enthusiast?&nbsp; Who needs Power Attack when you can step back and attack (partial action), take a full attack and step back again.&nbsp; You've gotten in every possible attack you can and your opponent will have to use an MEA to close with you, provoking an AoO and getting only one attack to your Full Attack + One.&nbsp; ...So, really, neither objection seems to convincing.&nbsp; The first would make Haste and similar effects even more powerful, when they're already skating close the edge in terms of balance.&nbsp; The second is something we have to live with anyway.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 28511, member: 996"] It seems pretty clear from the rules that you only get to take the coveted 5' step if you take no other movement in the round. AFAICT, there are two issues clouding this. 1) Is the extra partial action from Haste part of the same round? 2) Wouldn't taking a move /after/ you've 5' stepped cause the 5' step to become part of a regular move, and thus provoke a para-temporal AoO, and isn't that icky? Second objection first: Yes. Para-temporal AoOs are a fact of life in 3E, and not just because of a 5' step, and not just when Haste is involved. Take something as simple as withdrawing from combat. Make a double move and the first square doesn't count as threatened, simple, no? No. Say you move the first half of that normal move and see, from you new vantage point an enemy that you'd really like to take shot at or cast a spell on. You've only moved a regular move, you have a standard action left, but, if you go and take it, you get retroactively AoO'd. First problem: It's been suggested, enthusiastically, by several people (including the Sage, aparently, though I haven't seen a direct quote), that the extra Partial Action from Haste amounts to a sepparte (very short) round. Thus, the one-5'-step-round doesn't aply, and you can take one in each. This opens up a world of abuse. There are a lot of decision you have to make for the round. For instance, Expertise & Power Attack require you to distribute BAB for the whole round. But, if the Haste action and regular action are partitioned, you can Full Attack for a round, then, on your extra partial action, fight defensively and max out your expertise, oh, and the bonus from your /Defender/ weapon. Only one of your attacks is penalized, but all your opponents attacks will be against the higher AC. Casting a Full-Round spell? No problem, it takes effect right before your partial action, which you can then use to cast a standard action spell. Reach enthusiast? Who needs Power Attack when you can step back and attack (partial action), take a full attack and step back again. You've gotten in every possible attack you can and your opponent will have to use an MEA to close with you, provoking an AoO and getting only one attack to your Full Attack + One. ... So, really, neither objection seems to convincing. The first would make Haste and similar effects even more powerful, when they're already skating close the edge in terms of balance. The second is something we have to live with anyway. [/QUOTE]

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