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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 32919" data-attributes="member: 2011">Well, I must be missing something since the only rule I see that even comes close is the MEA 5 foot step one.And since there is no definitive rule on it, I cannot see why people are persisting that these similarly related rules must make it go one way or the other.Let's take a totally unrelated example:Cure Light Wounds is (harmless). So, when casting it on an unconscious character, you do not give them a Will save.But, Inflict Light Wounds is not (harmless). So, when casting it on a disabled undead (say a Vampire below 0 hits), you do, by the literal interpretation of the rules, give it a Will save to be only healed up half. But, do you really do that in the game, or do you just have him healed up, just like an unconscious PC with a Cure spell?The point is that the rules do not and cannot take all things into consideration. In this case, they did not state that Inflict Wounds spells are (harmless) if cast on undead.When the rules are not crystal clear, as a DM, you do the best you can.The rules are not crystal clear with regard to Haste. It's fairly obvious that the designers never took the details of an extra partial action into account. Otherwise, they would have been more explicit. So, each DM has to do the best he can based on his understanding of other rules.Artoomis thinks that using the MEA rule makes the most sense. I think that the MEA rule does not take Haste into account at all, so I think the Expertise and Power Attack things reset between actions rules make more sense.Different strokes for different folks.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 32919, member: 2011"] Well, I must be missing something since the only rule I see that even comes close is the MEA 5 foot step one. And since there is no definitive rule on it, I cannot see why people are persisting that these similarly related rules must make it go one way or the other. Let's take a totally unrelated example: Cure Light Wounds is (harmless). So, when casting it on an unconscious character, you do not give them a Will save. But, Inflict Light Wounds is not (harmless). So, when casting it on a disabled undead (say a Vampire below 0 hits), you do, by the literal interpretation of the rules, give it a Will save to be only healed up half. But, do you really do that in the game, or do you just have him healed up, just like an unconscious PC with a Cure spell? The point is that the rules do not and cannot take all things into consideration. In this case, they did not state that Inflict Wounds spells are (harmless) if cast on undead. When the rules are not crystal clear, as a DM, you do the best you can. The rules are not crystal clear with regard to Haste. It's fairly obvious that the designers never took the details of an extra partial action into account. Otherwise, they would have been more explicit. So, each DM has to do the best he can based on his understanding of other rules. Artoomis thinks that using the MEA rule makes the most sense. I think that the MEA rule does not take Haste into account at all, so I think the Expertise and Power Attack things reset between actions rules make more sense. Different strokes for different folks. [/QUOTE]

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