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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RogueJK" data-source="post: 7925562" data-attributes="member: 170">Sure they do.  There are spells requiring both attack rolls and saves.Some of them are set up to where the attack roll does one thing, and the target then gets a save to avoid another thing.  Several of the Paladin's various Smite spells are examples of this.  The end result is that the spell can do nothing (attack misses), something (attack hits but target makes save), or everything (attack hits and target fails save).  And these Smite spells even require Concentration to boot!See also Ray of Sickness, Ensnaring Strike, etc.Ice Knife is another example of this split effect, requiring both an attack roll and a save.  Attack roll for initial damage, with a subsequent DEX save for further damage.  The difference with this spell is that even if the initial attack roll misses, the target still has to make the DEX save, so it adds a fourth outcome.  So it can do nothing (attack misses and target makes save), something (attack hits but target makes save), another something (attack misses but target fails save), or everything (attack hits and target fails save).And while they're rare, there are a others that require both an attack and a save for an "all or nothing" effect, like Plane Shift.  It requires both a successful attack roll and a failed CHA save by the target.  If the attack misses or the target makes its save, the spell fails.</blockquote>