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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 6330683" data-attributes="member: 1210">I don't completely agree, KaiiLurker. I don't think anything in the PH will be "unalienable", if by that you mean the DM has to allow it. In a home game, especially, 5e really encourages the DM and the group to make the game their own. The PH isn't all or nothing, though I'll allow that organized play is a likely exception, but even it isn't clearly "standard", as I think I can illustrate.I think you're right that people are overlooking the middle ground between the Basic 5e game and the full-on tinkerer's paradise that the advanced modules in the DMG will allow. However, I don't agree that anything in the PH is must-be-allowed outside of the context of standard play. Not only that, I don't think there's going to be a real distinction between basic and standard play, nor between basic and advanced play. For example, what would you call a game that used everything in the PH except for a fighter option that included damage on a miss? What about everything except for one class, say monks? What about everything except for feats? What about a game that used the Basic rules, but an alternate healing module from the DMG? Heck, what about a game that used only the Basic rules but alternate modules for healing, spell points and, say, one that makes alignment mechanically important?For that matter, what if you use the Basic rules but include modules that, rather than changing any rules per se, add systems such as domain rulership and mass combat? I would be shocked if we didn't see adventures that use things like mass combat at some point (likely including the necessary rules in the adventure text). So there we would have organized play stepping outside of the PH rules and into DMG modules. Now, it's possible that we will never see this happen, but I think it's extremely unlikely, especially as 5e seems to focus pretty hard on adventures and story, and a lot of great D&D and fantasy stories end up with clashing armies involved at one point or another. It's not for everyone, but it polled very strongly as a desired 5e module and we already know that at least the mass combat rules have seen some development- enough that they've been semi-previewed on the WotC site. I totally admit that I may be wrong, but I strongly suspect that we'll see an adventure with some DMG content included within a year or so of the DMG's release. I really think that trying to define a given 5e game as basic, advanced or standard is a very muddy prospect, with the single exception of the most absolute case- the one where the only resource in use is the Basic rules.</blockquote>

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