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[5E] A Rogue "unnerf" - Extra Attack
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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7793733" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>If you keep the same progression of proficiency bonus as RAW, the benefit of expertise as advantage over RAW expertise is:</p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">+2</p> </td><td>d20 rolls 4 to 18 (78.75%)</td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">+3</p> </td><td>d20 rolls 5 to 17 (68.25%)</td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">+4</p> </td><td>d20 rolls 7 to 15 (47.25%)</td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">+5</p> </td><td>never (they tie on a roll of 11)</td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">+6</p> </td><td>never<br /> <p style="text-align: center"></p> </td></tr></table><p></p><p>So, yes, in many ways our expertise rule works to the player's advantage (no pun intended), but since it keeps the floors and ceilings lower that RAW, it accomplishes the balance I was shooting for.</p><p></p><p>In the example you wrote, yes the advantage over RAW is 43.75% to 40%, slightly better but hardly a big factor. When you get to something like a DC 25, the RAW still has a 30% chance to hit it, the +7 is still close (just under 28%).</p><p></p><p>What IS a big factor IMO is the +10 has the potential to reach 30, making it nearly impossible for most monsters to every notice them (the ceiling) and also making his minimum of 11 beat many monsters with passive scores of only 10 or lower. At 4th level, it is too much to have automatic success. With only +7, there is a chance, however small, that monsters with passive scores might notice him if he rolls low enough.</p><p></p><p>The goal with the advantage house-rule is also to make it so rogues (yeah, and bards...) cannot inherently hit higher DC than other classes. I am fine with them getting a chance to do better (it is a class feature after all), but not get high enough that others have no chance to even compete.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, the gang will arrive soon. As I have said before, if things don't work out with it, we'll go back and try a different approach, but last session it worked well IMO. And, as you said before, I don't see much point in going over ALL the math again! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 7793733, member: 6987520"] If you keep the same progression of proficiency bonus as RAW, the benefit of expertise as advantage over RAW expertise is: [TABLE] [TR] [TD][CENTER]+2[/CENTER][/TD] [TD]d20 rolls 4 to 18 (78.75%)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]+3[/CENTER][/TD] [TD]d20 rolls 5 to 17 (68.25%)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]+4[/CENTER][/TD] [TD]d20 rolls 7 to 15 (47.25%)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]+5[/CENTER][/TD] [TD]never (they tie on a roll of 11)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]+6[/CENTER][/TD] [TD]never [CENTER][/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] So, yes, in many ways our expertise rule works to the player's advantage (no pun intended), but since it keeps the floors and ceilings lower that RAW, it accomplishes the balance I was shooting for. In the example you wrote, yes the advantage over RAW is 43.75% to 40%, slightly better but hardly a big factor. When you get to something like a DC 25, the RAW still has a 30% chance to hit it, the +7 is still close (just under 28%). What IS a big factor IMO is the +10 has the potential to reach 30, making it nearly impossible for most monsters to every notice them (the ceiling) and also making his minimum of 11 beat many monsters with passive scores of only 10 or lower. At 4th level, it is too much to have automatic success. With only +7, there is a chance, however small, that monsters with passive scores might notice him if he rolls low enough. The goal with the advantage house-rule is also to make it so rogues (yeah, and bards...) cannot inherently hit higher DC than other classes. I am fine with them getting a chance to do better (it is a class feature after all), but not get high enough that others have no chance to even compete. Anyway, the gang will arrive soon. As I have said before, if things don't work out with it, we'll go back and try a different approach, but last session it worked well IMO. And, as you said before, I don't see much point in going over ALL the math again! ;) [/QUOTE]
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