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5e completely nerfed charm - for YOU, anyway
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<blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 6825042" data-attributes="member: 53980"><p>ExploderWizard referred to a charm that lasts for "days or even weeks". A charm that lasts that long is easy enough to reapply if you have a mind to do so, and therefore it can last indefinitely. On the other hand, a one hour charm is fairly impractical to constantly reapply, if only because you probably need to sleep some time and your spell slots are limited.</p><p></p><p>As for using charm as a means of interrogation, that's simply using charm as a tool, which I never objected to. There are other methods to get the same information, charm is but one option. There are even ways around it, starting with the target not knowing what the PCs want to know (or worse, he believes false information).</p><p></p><p>Fireball is not the same as a long term dominate. Sure, if you're fighting kobolds, a fireball may end the encounter before it properly begins. But that's a single encounter. Against a high CR dragon, the damage will prove less than stellar, as many on these forums have noted. Long term dominate, on the other hand, is an "I win" button that can be used to overcome not only a series of encounters, but many different types of encounters. A charmed giant can literally fight your battles for you, while a government official can resolve your legal issues. </p><p></p><p>Persuasion is not an issue because the DM defines the limits. Just as the DM is entitled to say that you can't jump the Grand Canyon regardless of your Athletics check, he can easily say that no Persuasion check is going to convince the lich to give you his phylactery. The same cannot be said of mind-control magic.</p><p></p><p>Charm as it stands is quite useful, but it isn't the solution to everything. You can't just keep chain casting charm on top of charm to avoid the repercussions of having usurped someone's free will. Rather than just charming the city official into doing your bidding for weeks, you'll need to manipulate him into doing what you want and reserve charm for when you most need an ace up your sleeve. In limiting the duration of mind control effects, they become a scalpel rather than a sledgehammer.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fanaelialae, post: 6825042, member: 53980"] ExploderWizard referred to a charm that lasts for "days or even weeks". A charm that lasts that long is easy enough to reapply if you have a mind to do so, and therefore it can last indefinitely. On the other hand, a one hour charm is fairly impractical to constantly reapply, if only because you probably need to sleep some time and your spell slots are limited. As for using charm as a means of interrogation, that's simply using charm as a tool, which I never objected to. There are other methods to get the same information, charm is but one option. There are even ways around it, starting with the target not knowing what the PCs want to know (or worse, he believes false information). Fireball is not the same as a long term dominate. Sure, if you're fighting kobolds, a fireball may end the encounter before it properly begins. But that's a single encounter. Against a high CR dragon, the damage will prove less than stellar, as many on these forums have noted. Long term dominate, on the other hand, is an "I win" button that can be used to overcome not only a series of encounters, but many different types of encounters. A charmed giant can literally fight your battles for you, while a government official can resolve your legal issues. Persuasion is not an issue because the DM defines the limits. Just as the DM is entitled to say that you can't jump the Grand Canyon regardless of your Athletics check, he can easily say that no Persuasion check is going to convince the lich to give you his phylactery. The same cannot be said of mind-control magic. Charm as it stands is quite useful, but it isn't the solution to everything. You can't just keep chain casting charm on top of charm to avoid the repercussions of having usurped someone's free will. Rather than just charming the city official into doing your bidding for weeks, you'll need to manipulate him into doing what you want and reserve charm for when you most need an ace up your sleeve. In limiting the duration of mind control effects, they become a scalpel rather than a sledgehammer. [/QUOTE]
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