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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8528298" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>A formal definition of 'game' in Salen and Zimmerman's Rules of Play, based on their analysis of eight influential definitions, is this</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They caveat that</p><p></p><p></p><p>Does 4e and DW meet their definition? And what about C*?</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">All are a form of physical or intellectual activity</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">All are voluntary</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If we take the DM to be a player, and in control of adversaries, then some of the time players are in conflict. Or we can say DM is not an adversary. All equally meet or don't meet this criteria.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Rules? Is "<em>If you decide something is impossible, say and ask for clarification</em>" a rule? I'd be curious to see how one would show that it is not a rule!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The goal-state in all constantly evolves. Right now we're sailing to shore. Later we're hoping to defeat a bear man.</li> </ol><p>Seeing as I have experience with rule sets as sparse as C*'s, and everyone around us called what we were doing playing a game - and concretely, a roleplaying game - I feel that the burden is squarely on those who want to show that C* isn't a game. For rigour, I'd like to know their definition that properly includes everything else we call RPG, while excluding C*.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You have your argument reversed. Against a formal definition of 'game', C* qualifies (or show that it does not). Rather I believe you are making a normative argument about what looks like a game to you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 8528298, member: 71699"] A formal definition of 'game' in Salen and Zimmerman's Rules of Play, based on their analysis of eight influential definitions, is this They caveat that Does 4e and DW meet their definition? And what about C*? [LIST=1] [*]All are a form of physical or intellectual activity [*]All are voluntary [*]If we take the DM to be a player, and in control of adversaries, then some of the time players are in conflict. Or we can say DM is not an adversary. All equally meet or don't meet this criteria. [*]Rules? Is "[I]If you decide something is impossible, say and ask for clarification[/I]" a rule? I'd be curious to see how one would show that it is not a rule! [*]The goal-state in all constantly evolves. Right now we're sailing to shore. Later we're hoping to defeat a bear man. [/LIST] Seeing as I have experience with rule sets as sparse as C*'s, and everyone around us called what we were doing playing a game - and concretely, a roleplaying game - I feel that the burden is squarely on those who want to show that C* isn't a game. For rigour, I'd like to know their definition that properly includes everything else we call RPG, while excluding C*. You have your argument reversed. Against a formal definition of 'game', C* qualifies (or show that it does not). Rather I believe you are making a normative argument about what looks like a game to you. [/QUOTE]
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