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Character Builds & Optimization
[5e DM Help] Keeping the lid on....what builds should I NOT allow?
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<blockquote data-quote="JellMoo" data-source="post: 6964541" data-attributes="member: 29821"><p>Hmm... I think I'm missing something here that's looping your build together. Let me just take a second to try and break down what I think you're going with.</p><p></p><p>5th level Barbarian</p><p>GWM feat</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what the "extra attack feature" is? Do you mean the attack given by Frenzy from the Path of the Berserker? Because here's what I'm breaking down:</p><p></p><p>Attack action: 2 attacks</p><p>Bonus action: Rage <strong>OR </strong>Frenzy Attack (after you Rage) <strong>OR </strong>extra attack from GWM</p><p></p><p>Without GWM for extra damage, assuming you hit 3 times you're likely doing about: 7 (weapon) + 4 (Str) +2 (Rage) per attack for a total of 13. If you hit 3 times you do 39 points of damage.</p><p></p><p>Against a low AC enemy, you can try your luck using GWM for extra damage. So +30 if you hit all 3 times.</p><p></p><p>69 points of damage is impressive, but you have to admit that it comes with quite a few caveats. </p><p></p><p>1) If you are using Frenzy, you have to deal with having 1 level of exhaustion, which isn't all that good. If you use Frenzy in your next encounter, you're dealing with 2 levels, or 3 if you use it with your 3rd Rage of the day. Risk vs reward is heavily at play here.</p><p></p><p>2) If you're intention is to use GWM for the extra attack, you're pretty much required to have multiple enemies centered around you to make it work. It's a great trick, no doubt, but battlefield composition puts a big limit on it. It also hurts your mobility since you can't move between the triggering attack and the follow up one. </p><p></p><p>3) Relying on Reckless Attack is another risky strategy. It only applies to your first attack, and even with advantage, your're still eating that -5 to hit which doesn't make it a guarantee. Adding a component from another class definitely can help, but it feels disingenuous to include it since the feature(s) in question are of a balance concern. If there are other enemies at play (say ranged, or just ones outside of your own range), granting all of them advantage can be a massive hindrance.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, the limits in place are rather heavy and contain the overall ability of the build. When the character can pull it off, it's brutally effective, no doubt. But it requires specific scenarios to do, and carries a lot of innate risk when it happens. When you consider that at the same level a Sorcerer can drop a pair of Fireballs for an average of 56 (assuming two failed saves) damage to each enemy in the area at a large range with low risk, and it just doesn't strike me as overpowered.</p><p></p><p>Thanks for the explanation though!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JellMoo, post: 6964541, member: 29821"] Hmm... I think I'm missing something here that's looping your build together. Let me just take a second to try and break down what I think you're going with. 5th level Barbarian GWM feat I'm not sure what the "extra attack feature" is? Do you mean the attack given by Frenzy from the Path of the Berserker? Because here's what I'm breaking down: Attack action: 2 attacks Bonus action: Rage [B]OR [/B]Frenzy Attack (after you Rage) [B]OR [/B]extra attack from GWM Without GWM for extra damage, assuming you hit 3 times you're likely doing about: 7 (weapon) + 4 (Str) +2 (Rage) per attack for a total of 13. If you hit 3 times you do 39 points of damage. Against a low AC enemy, you can try your luck using GWM for extra damage. So +30 if you hit all 3 times. 69 points of damage is impressive, but you have to admit that it comes with quite a few caveats. 1) If you are using Frenzy, you have to deal with having 1 level of exhaustion, which isn't all that good. If you use Frenzy in your next encounter, you're dealing with 2 levels, or 3 if you use it with your 3rd Rage of the day. Risk vs reward is heavily at play here. 2) If you're intention is to use GWM for the extra attack, you're pretty much required to have multiple enemies centered around you to make it work. It's a great trick, no doubt, but battlefield composition puts a big limit on it. It also hurts your mobility since you can't move between the triggering attack and the follow up one. 3) Relying on Reckless Attack is another risky strategy. It only applies to your first attack, and even with advantage, your're still eating that -5 to hit which doesn't make it a guarantee. Adding a component from another class definitely can help, but it feels disingenuous to include it since the feature(s) in question are of a balance concern. If there are other enemies at play (say ranged, or just ones outside of your own range), granting all of them advantage can be a massive hindrance. Honestly, the limits in place are rather heavy and contain the overall ability of the build. When the character can pull it off, it's brutally effective, no doubt. But it requires specific scenarios to do, and carries a lot of innate risk when it happens. When you consider that at the same level a Sorcerer can drop a pair of Fireballs for an average of 56 (assuming two failed saves) damage to each enemy in the area at a large range with low risk, and it just doesn't strike me as overpowered. Thanks for the explanation though! [/QUOTE]
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[5e DM Help] Keeping the lid on....what builds should I NOT allow?
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