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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5801071" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I don't think I count as a newer/younger player - born 1971, started playing in 1982 with Moldvay Basic, started playing AD&D in 1984. But I prefer the "level advancement as backdrop" approach of 4e to the "level advancement as achievement" approach of AD&D. Even back when I was using classic D&D as a system, I wasn't playing it in that way - we took it for granted that if you turned up and played your PC, you would gradually gain levels. We never treated XP as a <em>reward</em> in that Gygaxian sense.</p><p></p><p>Whether I therefore refute your conjecture, or just count as an outlier, I don't know.</p><p></p><p>It's a while since I've done the count, but around half the utility spells (warlock and wizard) in the 4e PHB are not combat-oriented - various fly spells, disguise self, amassador imp, glib-tongue type spells, cantrips of various sorts, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p>On this, I think you can only speak for yourself. I have found it to be true that 4e supports creative stuff across a wider range of PCs than just wizards, but at least in my 4e game the wizard - in virtue of having access to magic - does creative wizardly stuff, both in and out of combat. Mostly it is via the ability to act at a distance (TK, teleport etc).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5801071, member: 42582"] I don't think I count as a newer/younger player - born 1971, started playing in 1982 with Moldvay Basic, started playing AD&D in 1984. But I prefer the "level advancement as backdrop" approach of 4e to the "level advancement as achievement" approach of AD&D. Even back when I was using classic D&D as a system, I wasn't playing it in that way - we took it for granted that if you turned up and played your PC, you would gradually gain levels. We never treated XP as a [I]reward[/I] in that Gygaxian sense. Whether I therefore refute your conjecture, or just count as an outlier, I don't know. It's a while since I've done the count, but around half the utility spells (warlock and wizard) in the 4e PHB are not combat-oriented - various fly spells, disguise self, amassador imp, glib-tongue type spells, cantrips of various sorts, etc. On this, I think you can only speak for yourself. I have found it to be true that 4e supports creative stuff across a wider range of PCs than just wizards, but at least in my 4e game the wizard - in virtue of having access to magic - does creative wizardly stuff, both in and out of combat. Mostly it is via the ability to act at a distance (TK, teleport etc). [/QUOTE]
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