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5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8286305" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>This is a ridiculous question. You can ask the same about any class, and you just get a description of the class - obviously a Psion uses psionic powers. By your logic here, we don't need Wizards or Sorcerers, because we have EKs and ATs. We certainly didn't need Artificers, by that logic.</p><p></p><p>The Mystic class was about two balance passes away from being "what a Psion should do". Only the idiotic 70% standard they were applying at the time (which would also have caught ANY full caster class newly introduced, and would have definitely massacred the Warlock) prevented it from happening, because they were stuck in the "Apology Edition" mode of thinking at the time.</p><p></p><p>And just putting "possibly" after archetypes that aren't psionic and claiming they are is really proving my point, frankly. College of Whispers is also not psionic, you don't get to be psionic just because you have one ability with the word "psychic" in. It doesn't even have access to the appropriate psionic-style spells, because it only has default Bard access, so is missing stuff like Mind Sliver, which is a must for any class even pretending to be psionic.</p><p></p><p>So you have two genuine Psionic subclasses, one sorta (Aberrant Sorc - his theme is actually Far Realm, not psionic), one not psionic but covering some of the same ground (Whispers), and three more definitely not psionic. I guess you're trying to say you could re-fluff them as psionic, but that's not remotely the same thing. Further, the Fey Wanderer is totally inappropriate for Dark Sun.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think it is better. 4E's implementation is lazy and all the proposed implementations for 5E that I've seen are terrible. They make defiling a really weak gain at most that doesn't even really make sense to use most of the time, and doesn't have the dreadful effects it could have in 2E, nor the significant real-terms power-gain you got because of faster leveling.</p><p></p><p>You need an implementation that's an actual temptation. A significant power gain, especially in a way that can't otherwise be accessed - like an increased saving throw DC or something, extra dice on damage, extra radius, etc. not just simple upcasting for killing some plants with zero game impact. And if you keep using it, you should get more out of it, but it should become more dangerous. It shouldn't be trivial to not defile.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8286305, member: 18"] This is a ridiculous question. You can ask the same about any class, and you just get a description of the class - obviously a Psion uses psionic powers. By your logic here, we don't need Wizards or Sorcerers, because we have EKs and ATs. We certainly didn't need Artificers, by that logic. The Mystic class was about two balance passes away from being "what a Psion should do". Only the idiotic 70% standard they were applying at the time (which would also have caught ANY full caster class newly introduced, and would have definitely massacred the Warlock) prevented it from happening, because they were stuck in the "Apology Edition" mode of thinking at the time. And just putting "possibly" after archetypes that aren't psionic and claiming they are is really proving my point, frankly. College of Whispers is also not psionic, you don't get to be psionic just because you have one ability with the word "psychic" in. It doesn't even have access to the appropriate psionic-style spells, because it only has default Bard access, so is missing stuff like Mind Sliver, which is a must for any class even pretending to be psionic. So you have two genuine Psionic subclasses, one sorta (Aberrant Sorc - his theme is actually Far Realm, not psionic), one not psionic but covering some of the same ground (Whispers), and three more definitely not psionic. I guess you're trying to say you could re-fluff them as psionic, but that's not remotely the same thing. Further, the Fey Wanderer is totally inappropriate for Dark Sun. I don't think it is better. 4E's implementation is lazy and all the proposed implementations for 5E that I've seen are terrible. They make defiling a really weak gain at most that doesn't even really make sense to use most of the time, and doesn't have the dreadful effects it could have in 2E, nor the significant real-terms power-gain you got because of faster leveling. You need an implementation that's an actual temptation. A significant power gain, especially in a way that can't otherwise be accessed - like an increased saving throw DC or something, extra dice on damage, extra radius, etc. not just simple upcasting for killing some plants with zero game impact. And if you keep using it, you should get more out of it, but it should become more dangerous. It shouldn't be trivial to not defile. [/QUOTE]
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