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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8286387" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>The problem with the mystic is that I don't see what it <em>adds </em>- and if it's intended to be simple it's a complete failure. You get surprisingly long spell lists here, fiddly mechanics, and not ultimately things that are that different from casters with themed spell lists.</p><p></p><p>This doesn't mean I think it's <em>unsalvageable</em> - but based on the 2017 Unearthed Arcana the disciplines need shredding and we need to not have e.g. 27 power points at 5th level with a limit of 5 per spell and three disciplines known, therefore a potential of 15 different special abilities not counting talents or subclasses. You've at least as much fiddly stuff to juggle as a wizard does - probably more given that (a) you get the powers in great big gulps rather than a couple of spells at a time and (b) not only do you have these powers but for many of them you need to decide how many power points to spend</p><p></p><p>It has however (a) driven DMs to distraction and (b) got in the way of people learning the game. It's also intimidating for newbies - so yes it has stopped people playing. I have no objection at all to <em>seriously </em>different complexity levels to accomplish different things, but the problem with the Mystic in particular is that it's a resource-managery spellcaster that does very similar things to themed spellcasters so doesn't add that much. And because it's a quasi-caster it adds complexity and confusion, doing almost the same things in a different way.</p><p></p><p>Being massively better than Shadowrun is not being perfect, and keeping the classes down is one of the smart moves 5e has made.</p><p></p><p>Yes it has. Because some people start from the books to see if it's something they want to do. You can get past it but there is still a cost. There's survivor bias in your comments - with the DM teaching rather than bouncing off the rulebooks.</p><p></p><p>Do they? They've been adding <em>psionics -</em> but the psychic warrior is an explicit fighter subclass. </p><p></p><p>And I've pointed out why the mystic (as of 2017) isn't even <em>close </em>to being there. It started on the right path and then massively overcomplicated things to the point it reads to me like Analysis Paralysis: the class. Which is the opposite of what I think we both want.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8286387, member: 87792"] The problem with the mystic is that I don't see what it [I]adds [/I]- and if it's intended to be simple it's a complete failure. You get surprisingly long spell lists here, fiddly mechanics, and not ultimately things that are that different from casters with themed spell lists. This doesn't mean I think it's [I]unsalvageable[/I] - but based on the 2017 Unearthed Arcana the disciplines need shredding and we need to not have e.g. 27 power points at 5th level with a limit of 5 per spell and three disciplines known, therefore a potential of 15 different special abilities not counting talents or subclasses. You've at least as much fiddly stuff to juggle as a wizard does - probably more given that (a) you get the powers in great big gulps rather than a couple of spells at a time and (b) not only do you have these powers but for many of them you need to decide how many power points to spend It has however (a) driven DMs to distraction and (b) got in the way of people learning the game. It's also intimidating for newbies - so yes it has stopped people playing. I have no objection at all to [I]seriously [/I]different complexity levels to accomplish different things, but the problem with the Mystic in particular is that it's a resource-managery spellcaster that does very similar things to themed spellcasters so doesn't add that much. And because it's a quasi-caster it adds complexity and confusion, doing almost the same things in a different way. Being massively better than Shadowrun is not being perfect, and keeping the classes down is one of the smart moves 5e has made. Yes it has. Because some people start from the books to see if it's something they want to do. You can get past it but there is still a cost. There's survivor bias in your comments - with the DM teaching rather than bouncing off the rulebooks. Do they? They've been adding [I]psionics -[/I] but the psychic warrior is an explicit fighter subclass. And I've pointed out why the mystic (as of 2017) isn't even [I]close [/I]to being there. It started on the right path and then massively overcomplicated things to the point it reads to me like Analysis Paralysis: the class. Which is the opposite of what I think we both want. [/QUOTE]
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