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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8620501" data-attributes="member: 93670">I feel like [USER=6779717]@Eric V[/USER] is getting unfairly jumped on with strategies that are implied as things a good gm should have done to make a gaggle of <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/16904-gnoll" target="_blank">gnolls</a> with 14(+2) strength +2 proficiency bonus & no proficient skills dangerous.  We don't know what level the players were in <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/5e-heal-thyself-is-healing-too-weak-in-d-d.687650/post-8619143" target="_blank">his example</a> at the time it happened, but we do know that with the gnolls needing a 17+ to hit the players had a respectable 21ac & I figure it reasonable to say the players were probably into tier3 (level 11+).  That's not how grapple works.[spoiler="PHB195 Grappling"]W hen you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.The target of your grapple must be no m ore than one size larger than you, and it must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check, a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the grappled condition (see appendix A). The condition specifies the things that end it, and you can release the target whenever you like (no action required).Escaping a Grapple. A grappled creature can use its action to escape. To do so, it must succeed on a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check contested by your Strength (Athletics) check.Moving a Grappled Creature. When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you.[/spoiler]Athletics or acrobatics as appropriate is an extremely common skill for strength & dex based characters who will almost certainly have a +5 from the attribute alone & another +4 or +5 if proficient in either to ensure that the gnoll will need to roll 1-5points higher on the grapple attempt.  With an average 10.5 on a d20 that's still probably a 15+. A second gnoll could use the help action to give the first advantage, but unlike in the past  when <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/giving-an-ad-d-feel-to-5e.679228/post-8241363" target="_blank">gm's best friend & bonus types</a> could stack advantage is a one & done thing.Two of the eight adjacent squares are filled by gnolls working on this grapple assuming no other PC's are taking others that leaves a possible six adjacent squares.Assuming the gnoll gets the ~15+ with advantage they can benefit from this...[spoiler="appendix A Grappled condition"]• A grappled creature’s speed becomes 0, and it can't benefit from any bonus to its speed.• The condition ends if the grappler is incapacitated(see the condition).• The condition also ends if an effect removes thegrappled creature from the reach of the grappler orgrappling effect, such as when a creature is hurledaway by the thunderwave spell.[/spoiler]Although I can't seem to find it someone mentioned pins, The only reference I could find in the PHB about pins was 167 point2 in the grappler feat. Prone from a pin would give advantage if such a rule exists,  but at this point it takes a second round & another ~15+ roll to successfully pin the PC assuming the party didn't just pop the 22hp grappling gnoll to reset things.Pin was definitely a thing in <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Grapple" target="_blank">3.5 grapple</a> where it looks like just being grappled made you flat footed (no dex to AC) & being pinned imposes a -4 to AC.The other N-2 gnolls in the gaggle still needed to make their single attack one by one hoping for a 17+ when their slot being tracked in the initiative comes up on both the first & second turn the grapple is attempted.  attacks & Aoe's could need any or all of the gnolls to take damage or save. Since the AOE probably won't kill the gnolls they need to have physical/digital token mapped to specific HP totals just as with the initiative slots if not using side initiative to paper over a problem caused by the gaggle of gnolld BA should have made dangerous in more ways than book keeping.TL;DR:  How does grapple accomplish what you are saying it would do in order to fulfil BA's goal of making trash monsters dangerous in large groups without just making the combat dangerous to any chance of excitement in the resulting slog?  If accomplishing the goals of BA requires the GM to make a bunch of changes to the low level monsters & maybe even invent new rules/mechanics before the gaggle of low CR critters are a threat have we really gained anything over doing that same thing to create a gaggle of minions that combine into a threat if BA was not there to impact every other monster right down to the design of healing too?</blockquote>

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