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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6323715" data-attributes="member: 18">I view it as whinging to dismiss stuff as subjective in a fundamentally subjective argument, but obviously that's quite subjective! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> I believe I did provide an argument, but you dismissed it as subjective, which is totally find. It's not the same as not providing one at all, though. You seem more interested in semantics than meaning, though, which kind of makes me less keen to discuss stuff with you (less so than certain people, admittedly! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ). Fr'ex, re: ogre/hobbie, I think naturally one would assume I meant &quot;hits like an ogre&quot;, which you seem to have skipped as option! (and is indeed what I was implying)This isn't true. They murder harder (or at least equally harder, with less possibility of losses) in RL-style skirmish (i.e. few feet between each person) than formation (at least when equipped with the weapons from the statblock and using RAW). If they had reach weapons things would get more complicated, but the don't.If you mean the party gets murdered less in skirmish, I agree, but not much less, RAW. Take out the working at range bit and it definitely helps and forces them to focus-fire in a way that will slow them down.Trip isn't in 5E, afaik (except as a Battlemaster Fighter ability maybe?). Grapple is, and can potentially hold one in place. What is the Cleric's &quot;strength of arms&quot;? Grapple? They need to already be separated for grapple to have any value, though. Your entire strategy has an apparent presumption that Hobbies started separated in such a way that you can keep them that way, which may or may not be valid.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 6323715, member: 18"] I view it as whinging to dismiss stuff as subjective in a fundamentally subjective argument, but obviously that's quite subjective! :D I believe I did provide an argument, but you dismissed it as subjective, which is totally find. It's not the same as not providing one at all, though. You seem more interested in semantics than meaning, though, which kind of makes me less keen to discuss stuff with you (less so than certain people, admittedly! :) ). Fr'ex, re: ogre/hobbie, I think naturally one would assume I meant "hits like an ogre", which you seem to have skipped as option! (and is indeed what I was implying) This isn't true. They murder harder (or at least equally harder, with less possibility of losses) in RL-style skirmish (i.e. few feet between each person) than formation (at least when equipped with the weapons from the statblock and using RAW). If they had reach weapons things would get more complicated, but the don't. If you mean the party gets murdered less in skirmish, I agree, but not much less, RAW. Take out the working at range bit and it definitely helps and forces them to focus-fire in a way that will slow them down. Trip isn't in 5E, afaik (except as a Battlemaster Fighter ability maybe?). Grapple is, and can potentially hold one in place. What is the Cleric's "strength of arms"? Grapple? They need to already be separated for grapple to have any value, though. Your entire strategy has an apparent presumption that Hobbies started separated in such a way that you can keep them that way, which may or may not be valid. [/QUOTE]

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