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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 6920006" data-attributes="member: 6750235"> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Knocking over a bookcase does small AoE damage.  So does collapsing a tunnel or bridge.  It's there and just a factor of environment and/or preparation.  See DMG pg 249 for improvised damage for an idea on it.  If the DM allows gunpowder it's something the fighter might even craft on his own depending on background, and the secret for making gun powder could be a hermit secret for a fighter as a possible method of allowing it in the campaign with restrictions on access.  It's another method for some AoE damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I was flying with my griffon mount, could still climb, and could still jump.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I was not turning invisible but I was hiding.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Charm isn't a great ability in the first place.  Advantage on a check can be done resource free with 2 members of the party where one uses the aid another action.  If it's to stop incoming attacks then death or restraint accomplishes that as well.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Teleporting also sucks in general without specifics like items from the location or existing circles of which the teleporter is aware.  It can be convenient but traveling does accomplish the same thing.  The typical use being getting home quickly after the important part is over or when fleeing.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dead > stun.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  Multiple attacks for grappling and pinning is effective to restrict opponents even without the stun, but other options such as poison coated weapons have useful effects as well.  There's quite a bit of potential with poison whether the fighter is using contacts to supply it, or harvesting / creating his or her own.  The choice also exists to knock someone unconscious instead of killing when dropped to 0 hp.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They can hit and hide.  Hitting and then leaving turns the encounter into a chase.  The leaving part can be done taking the opportunity attack, or knocking opponents back first with a shove, or a combo shove with knock down and push first, or having taken the mobility feat.  They aren't as good at it at rogues or monks, true, but the option still exists.  They can do it as well as a rogue or monk momentarily by using action surge.</li> </ul>There are obviously things fighters cannot do but the lack of utility tends to get overstated.  The utility just tends to fall into standard skill and equipment use.The fact that fighters share the same hit die as rangers and paladins when both have spells and rangers have a fair bit of utility options, or applying EK to the fighter to add friends, invisibility, fly and fireball example spell options matching what was listed tends to dispute the hit dice / utility link.  A bard (d8) has more utility than a wild sorcerer (d6), for example, so the higher hit die also has more utility in that example.  I think utility is a factor but not the only one.</blockquote>

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