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*Dungeons & Dragons
5E imbalance: Don't want to play it
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<blockquote data-quote="Cybit" data-source="post: 6262343" data-attributes="member: 66111"><p>For the sake of this thread, I won't try to quote folks, since the pages will just get too long, but as some points of clarification - </p><p></p><p>A) The dwarven wizard, while playable, would give up significant DPR to get an AC of 18 at level 4. Assuming that all multi attack spells target 3 monsters, from levels 1-10 (and 11 would almost certainly fall this way, seeing as what happens at 11), all current (fully optimized) casters are under several martial classes (fighter & monk, probably ranger as well) for damage dealt per round by a fairly good margin. A dwarven caster, while getting a decent AC (18 is good, but the game does take into account that a plate wearing 1st level fighter with a shield has an AC of 20), would be hit even harder. Feats are insanely good, and frankly, a dwarven wizard who goes down that route with their feats is not making optimal choices to say the least.</p><p></p><p>Your assumptions in what monsters have in terms of abilities and saves at given levels do not seem to match the publicly available Bestiary. I would suggest a more thorough examination of the Bestiary would be in order. </p><p></p><p>B) 5E is much harder to break than 4E currently in terms of balance - My old 4E D&D group was full of optimizers and math nerds, and after running the current set of rules by them, they found 4E much easier to break than 5E. On a related note, Concentration is a PITA for casters, mwahahaha. </p><p></p><p>C) Tactical is a bit of both currently. Both of the games I run switch between TotM and grids on a weekly basis, depending on how lazy I am feeling that day. Because you can't stack advantage, you will find that, as you play the game, the multiple synergistic stacking that wrecked 4E classes at higher levels (my 4E group had a resourceful warlord, a knight, a thief and a ranger all in the same group) doesn't take hold nearly as much. You don't have 10 different ways to buff creatures. </p><p></p><p>D) Web, Stinking Cloud, etc, are much harder to land than expected (Web especially). The amount of saves creatures get, as well as concentration, as well as the specific spell requirements make the spells far more situational (and prone to failure). </p><p> </p><p>E) I think this is a situation where playing the game often leads to much different results than theorycrafting.</p><p> </p><p>I understand that 3E was not the best edition for casters, and 4E brought a much more balanced approach to combat than 3E, but I would remind folks that the man in charge of D&D is a man famous for his 3E supplement that made martial characters badass. The Chicken Little approach to martial imbalances in 5E is very illogical.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cybit, post: 6262343, member: 66111"] For the sake of this thread, I won't try to quote folks, since the pages will just get too long, but as some points of clarification - A) The dwarven wizard, while playable, would give up significant DPR to get an AC of 18 at level 4. Assuming that all multi attack spells target 3 monsters, from levels 1-10 (and 11 would almost certainly fall this way, seeing as what happens at 11), all current (fully optimized) casters are under several martial classes (fighter & monk, probably ranger as well) for damage dealt per round by a fairly good margin. A dwarven caster, while getting a decent AC (18 is good, but the game does take into account that a plate wearing 1st level fighter with a shield has an AC of 20), would be hit even harder. Feats are insanely good, and frankly, a dwarven wizard who goes down that route with their feats is not making optimal choices to say the least. Your assumptions in what monsters have in terms of abilities and saves at given levels do not seem to match the publicly available Bestiary. I would suggest a more thorough examination of the Bestiary would be in order. B) 5E is much harder to break than 4E currently in terms of balance - My old 4E D&D group was full of optimizers and math nerds, and after running the current set of rules by them, they found 4E much easier to break than 5E. On a related note, Concentration is a PITA for casters, mwahahaha. C) Tactical is a bit of both currently. Both of the games I run switch between TotM and grids on a weekly basis, depending on how lazy I am feeling that day. Because you can't stack advantage, you will find that, as you play the game, the multiple synergistic stacking that wrecked 4E classes at higher levels (my 4E group had a resourceful warlord, a knight, a thief and a ranger all in the same group) doesn't take hold nearly as much. You don't have 10 different ways to buff creatures. D) Web, Stinking Cloud, etc, are much harder to land than expected (Web especially). The amount of saves creatures get, as well as concentration, as well as the specific spell requirements make the spells far more situational (and prone to failure). E) I think this is a situation where playing the game often leads to much different results than theorycrafting. I understand that 3E was not the best edition for casters, and 4E brought a much more balanced approach to combat than 3E, but I would remind folks that the man in charge of D&D is a man famous for his 3E supplement that made martial characters badass. The Chicken Little approach to martial imbalances in 5E is very illogical. [/QUOTE]
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