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Message: <blockquote data-quote="smbakeresq" data-source="post: 7486960" data-attributes="member: 28301">That is a stupid example, I will ignore the implied insult because clearly you do not know the rules and how they interact.The Golem has the invisibility condition - therefore "Invisible • An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves. • Attack rolls against the creature have disadvantage, and the creature’s attack rolls have advantage."So it is completely undetectable until it makes noise as stated in the rules.  I would add if you run into an invisible object you would detect it.  Furthermore it is heavily obscured "A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely" so you cant even try to see it.Once the golem makes a noise or attacks, which both cause noise even though it not stated in the rules that those action cause it to be detectable, therefore you move to unseen attackers and targets:U n s e e n A t t a c k e r s a n d T a r g e t s1. Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack’s range: a creature, an object, or a location. 2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll. 3. Resolve the attack. You make the attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Som e attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage.If there’s ever any question whether something you’re doing counts as an attack, the rule is simple: if you’re making an attack roll, you’re making an attack.Combatants often try to escape their foes’ notice by hiding, casting the invisibility spell, or lurking in darkness. When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you’re guessing the target’s location or you’re targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn’t in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the DM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target’s location correctly. When a creature can’t see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it. If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses."I bolded relevant parts. The golem retains the invisibility condition unless something happens to get rid of it, like ending the spell. The first sentence in the 3rd paragraph states clearly that HIDING is separate then being invisible as invisible is separated out.  That means you can do both. I also bolded creatures you can hear but not see, clearly they are clearly different also.  Finally the last bolded sentence tells you what HIDDEN means, unseen and unheard.Read HIDING on page 177 PHB.  The relevant passage there is the last one "What Can You See? One of the main factors in determining whether you can find a hidden creature or object is how well you can see in an area, which might be lightly or heavily obscured, as explained in chapter 8."Since invisibility means you are heavily obscured, you cant see into it, so you cant detect it.  There is also this passage "You can’t hide from a creature that can see you, and if you make noise (such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase), you give away your position. An invisible creature can’t be seen, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and it still has to stay quiet. "What that means is if you stay quiet and are invisible you are in a heavily obscured space so you cant be detected by normal means, so you example fails utterly just by reading the rules.  Being invisible means you can always take the hide action, which means if you move, then you can still try to take the hide action (see hiding rules) to stay quiet so you do not give away your position. If you try to attack you give away your position, so you give away your position, but you still have the invisible condition UNLESS something else causes your invisibility to drop.Its not being a rules lawyer, and I would know as I am an actual lawyer.  Its called reading comprehension, I will give you more of a pass then you gave me since the rules are poorly organized so in some cases confusing.  The rule in this case isn't absurd if you read and understand them.</blockquote>

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