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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7487841" data-attributes="member: 16814">Not sure how you say I glossed over the description while simultaneously admitting that description doesn't say golems are silent. :/For noises:&nbsp; thrumming, humming, clicking, grinding, squealing, knocking, scraping, whistling, sussuruss, pinging, groaning, eerie piping, etc.&nbsp; Since there's no fixed construction or description details about iron golems or hiw magic animates them, essentially whatever you choose.Sigh.&nbsp; If I have the iron golem roll a DEX(stealth) check, what's it's modifier, according to the rules?Your assumption is that it is silent.&nbsp; You've decided this before checking.&nbsp; You should narrate accordingly.If you fail a check to be hidden, you've either been seen to made noise or been located some other way.&nbsp; That's the rule.&nbsp; I don't have to determine ahead of time which occurred on a failed hiding attempt.&nbsp; It could be many things.&nbsp; My point is that if you fail to hide, somehow you are located.&nbsp; If you pre-narrate complete silence, that choice is what's causing you problems on a failed check, not the check.&nbsp; If, instead, you don't pre-narrate part of the gilem's attempt to hide, you have open options to say it made enough noise doing something and tgat's what caused the failed check.I have fully quoted you every time.&nbsp; I'm not setting up a strawman, I'm saying that your issue is pre-narrating the outcome, which you are when you assume the golem is completely silent and motionless before you determine if it's hidden.Lol.&nbsp; My entire argument is &quot;don't paint yourself into corners, leave outs so the game can progress without predefined outcomes&quot; and you accuse me of being rigid!&nbsp; Man, made my day!To enunciate:&nbsp; if you are uncertain if the invisibke golem is hidden, roll the check and then decide the fiction.&nbsp; If you insist on deciding fiction that contradicts the roll, don't roll to begin with, just narrate.&nbsp; In the former, you're not assuming silent golems, but this golem may be silent if ot rolls well.&nbsp; In the latter, you've assumed silent golems already and then complain if a failed check doesn't match your established fiction.&nbsp; I say use the former method, and play to find out if the golem is silent; don't assume it is.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7487841, member: 16814"] Not sure how you say I glossed over the description while simultaneously admitting that description doesn't say golems are silent. :/ For noises: thrumming, humming, clicking, grinding, squealing, knocking, scraping, whistling, sussuruss, pinging, groaning, eerie piping, etc. Since there's no fixed construction or description details about iron golems or hiw magic animates them, essentially whatever you choose. Sigh. If I have the iron golem roll a DEX(stealth) check, what's it's modifier, according to the rules? Your [i]assumption[/i] is that it is silent. You've decided this before checking. You should narrate accordingly. If you fail a check to be hidden, you've either been seen to made noise or been located some other way. That's the rule. I don't have to determine ahead of time which occurred on a failed hiding attempt. It could be many things. My point is that if you fail to hide, somehow you are located. If you pre-narrate complete silence, that choice is what's causing you problems on a failed check, not the check. If, instead, you don't pre-narrate part of the gilem's attempt to hide, you have open options to say it made enough noise doing something and tgat's what caused the failed check. I have fully quoted you every time. I'm not setting up a strawman, I'm saying that your issue is pre-narrating the outcome, which you are when you assume the golem is completely silent and motionless before you determine if it's hidden. Lol. My entire argument is "don't paint yourself into corners, leave outs so the game can progress without predefined outcomes" and you accuse me of being rigid! Man, made my day! To enunciate: if you are uncertain if the invisibke golem is hidden, roll the check and [i]then[/i] decide the fiction. If you insist on deciding fiction that contradicts the roll, don't roll to begin with, just narrate. In the former, you're not assuming silent golems, but this golem may be silent if ot rolls well. In the latter, you've assumed silent golems already and then complain if a failed check doesn't match your established fiction. I say use the former method, and play to find out if the golem is silent; don't assume it is. [/QUOTE]

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