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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7491556" data-attributes="member: 23751">When they are getting noticed 40% of the time by people with penalty to wisdom, it's a crappy, crappy ability.When it's failing 35-40% of the time to surprise anyone in the party, it's virtually useless as a special ability.In a group 1, probably 2 out of 5 will notice it the majority of the time.&nbsp; If one of them has +2 or better, it will be even more lopsided.&nbsp; That's an average group by the way.&nbsp; In your average group of 5, that 37.5% of a 12 or higher means that usually there will be two that are above average with wisdom. If someone came to you and asked you to invest $10,000 in a stock that has a 45% chance of failing, would you really consider that &quot;very little risk&quot;?3d6 has been standard since basic.&nbsp; Your favored distribution doesn't matter for this discussion, since we are discussing D&amp;D and not house rules.&nbsp; 16.2% have a 14 or higher.&nbsp;With perception.&nbsp; How else?&nbsp; It's just not an opposed hide check as the gargoyle isn't trying to hide.&nbsp; It's more in the nature of a disguise.&nbsp; What I would do is set a DC to notice odd things, like perhaps light scratches near the feet of where the gargoyles perch.&nbsp; Pushing off and landing might cause scraping.&nbsp; There might be bits of dried blood on the &quot;statues&quot;.&nbsp; By the way, in 4e gargoyles actually turn into statues.&nbsp; They don't hold still like one.&nbsp; They don't just look like one.&nbsp; They become statues.&nbsp; It's crystal clear that you are just choosing to ignore the intent and logic behind gargoyles for some reason.&nbsp; And that's fine for your game, but it's not how they work by RAW.&nbsp; Read the 5e description again.&nbsp; The ability doesn't involve a hide check at all.&nbsp; They are simply flat out indistinguishable from a statue.&nbsp; The PCs aren't even supposed to get a roll to tell the difference.&nbsp; If they were, there would be rules for it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7491556, member: 23751"] When they are getting noticed 40% of the time by people with penalty to wisdom, it's a crappy, crappy ability. When it's failing 35-40% of the time to surprise anyone in the party, it's virtually useless as a special ability. In a group 1, probably 2 out of 5 will notice it the majority of the time. If one of them has +2 or better, it will be even more lopsided. That's an average group by the way. In your average group of 5, that 37.5% of a 12 or higher means that usually there will be two that are above average with wisdom. If someone came to you and asked you to invest $10,000 in a stock that has a 45% chance of failing, would you really consider that "very little risk"? 3d6 has been standard since basic. Your favored distribution doesn't matter for this discussion, since we are discussing D&D and not house rules. 16.2% have a 14 or higher. With perception. How else? It's just not an opposed hide check as the gargoyle isn't trying to hide. It's more in the nature of a disguise. What I would do is set a DC to notice odd things, like perhaps light scratches near the feet of where the gargoyles perch. Pushing off and landing might cause scraping. There might be bits of dried blood on the "statues". By the way, in 4e gargoyles actually turn into statues. They don't hold still like one. They don't just look like one. They become statues. It's crystal clear that you are just choosing to ignore the intent and logic behind gargoyles for some reason. And that's fine for your game, but it's not how they work by RAW. Read the 5e description again. The ability doesn't involve a hide check at all. They are simply flat out indistinguishable from a statue. The PCs aren't even supposed to get a roll to tell the difference. If they were, there would be rules for it. [/QUOTE]

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