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5E low level monster skill checks
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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7793660" data-attributes="member: 6750235"><p>Penalties or bonuses are generally not used in 5e in favor of the advantage/disadvantage mechanic. If someone is constantly using either there's a misconception going on.</p><p></p><p>Visual range is the typical factor in perception and the difficulty in seeing something doesn't need adding disadvantage or penalties. That's already done by the DM determining whether it's automatic, easy, moderate, hard, very hard, nearly impossible, or impossible to perceive something at that range. Adding a penalty is redundant after the DM already set the DC; it's part of the hassle that comes with DM empowerment. ;-)</p><p></p><p>Harder to do it when it's an opposed check over a static DC.</p><p></p><p>Various section mention it, however. For example low light imposes disadvantage. Heavy rain imposes disadvantage. Page 243 of the DMG expands on visibility and noticing other creatures. Every reference I find is stealth vs perception is in reference to encounter range. It's sneaking past someone or surprising someone. The intent seems to be to not make the check until that range.</p><p></p><p>The rule is both parties automatically notice each other if <strong>within sight or hearing range</strong> if neither is trying to be stealthy. If they are trying to be stealthy make the checks. Perception isn't x-ray vision and stealth requires a place to hide.</p><p></p><p>According to the rules, a Wood Elf can hide when lightly obscured or a Lightfoot Halfling can hide if only obscured by a creature one size larger than it. There is no level of obscure between light and heavy. Heavy gives total concealment and it takes a special feature to hide in anything less. Total concealment or darkness grants the blindness condition.</p><p></p><p>To hide, the character cannot be visible. Most characters cannot "hide in shadows" (dim light is considered lightly obscured). This is one of those things that errata was clear on the DM determining if the conditions exist to hide. An NPC could be in a watch tower overlooking an open field in broad daylight. He can see someone approaching for miles because there is no opportunity to make a stealth check in the first place. He cannot hear the PC but the PC has no place to hide. The PC is visible.</p><p></p><p>Stealth is more about being quite than not being seen. No one can see the PC anyway because it's a requirement to hide in the first place. Only 10th+ level rangers can hide without being obscured and that takes preparation and requires not moving.</p><p></p><p>I get the impression some of you are being too liberal with stealth. If someone is outside of earshot and heavily obscured no roll is necessary. Others are blind to the PC (per heavily obscured rules) and cannot hear a PC trying to be quiet at a distance. If the PC is not heavily obscured there is still no roll needed because it takes special abilities to hide at that point and the PC cannot do it. If the PC has a position that's lightly obscured and that ability to use it then make a normal roll.</p><p></p><p>Also remember that whatever is giving the heavily obscured position isn't necessarily mobile. If someone is hiding in some dense brush then moving out to the next patch of dense brush requires moving out into the open and giving up hiding if that area is under surveillance.</p><p></p><p>The way 5e portrays stealth is very much under the DM empowerment. It's generally the DM has described a place that suitable to hide, PC's hide there and wait for NPC's to move on and then quietly move to the next position when the coast is clear (no one is looking) and then hide again; or they move around quietly while out of sight so that they don't let on that they are creeping around in the dark.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 7793660, member: 6750235"] Penalties or bonuses are generally not used in 5e in favor of the advantage/disadvantage mechanic. If someone is constantly using either there's a misconception going on. Visual range is the typical factor in perception and the difficulty in seeing something doesn't need adding disadvantage or penalties. That's already done by the DM determining whether it's automatic, easy, moderate, hard, very hard, nearly impossible, or impossible to perceive something at that range. Adding a penalty is redundant after the DM already set the DC; it's part of the hassle that comes with DM empowerment. ;-) Harder to do it when it's an opposed check over a static DC. Various section mention it, however. For example low light imposes disadvantage. Heavy rain imposes disadvantage. Page 243 of the DMG expands on visibility and noticing other creatures. Every reference I find is stealth vs perception is in reference to encounter range. It's sneaking past someone or surprising someone. The intent seems to be to not make the check until that range. The rule is both parties automatically notice each other if [B]within sight or hearing range[/B] if neither is trying to be stealthy. If they are trying to be stealthy make the checks. Perception isn't x-ray vision and stealth requires a place to hide. According to the rules, a Wood Elf can hide when lightly obscured or a Lightfoot Halfling can hide if only obscured by a creature one size larger than it. There is no level of obscure between light and heavy. Heavy gives total concealment and it takes a special feature to hide in anything less. Total concealment or darkness grants the blindness condition. To hide, the character cannot be visible. Most characters cannot "hide in shadows" (dim light is considered lightly obscured). This is one of those things that errata was clear on the DM determining if the conditions exist to hide. An NPC could be in a watch tower overlooking an open field in broad daylight. He can see someone approaching for miles because there is no opportunity to make a stealth check in the first place. He cannot hear the PC but the PC has no place to hide. The PC is visible. Stealth is more about being quite than not being seen. No one can see the PC anyway because it's a requirement to hide in the first place. Only 10th+ level rangers can hide without being obscured and that takes preparation and requires not moving. I get the impression some of you are being too liberal with stealth. If someone is outside of earshot and heavily obscured no roll is necessary. Others are blind to the PC (per heavily obscured rules) and cannot hear a PC trying to be quiet at a distance. If the PC is not heavily obscured there is still no roll needed because it takes special abilities to hide at that point and the PC cannot do it. If the PC has a position that's lightly obscured and that ability to use it then make a normal roll. Also remember that whatever is giving the heavily obscured position isn't necessarily mobile. If someone is hiding in some dense brush then moving out to the next patch of dense brush requires moving out into the open and giving up hiding if that area is under surveillance. The way 5e portrays stealth is very much under the DM empowerment. It's generally the DM has described a place that suitable to hide, PC's hide there and wait for NPC's to move on and then quietly move to the next position when the coast is clear (no one is looking) and then hide again; or they move around quietly while out of sight so that they don't let on that they are creeping around in the dark. [/QUOTE]
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