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5E low level monster skill checks
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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7794693" data-attributes="member: 6750235"><p>Understanding the rules is important in understanding how to apply them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do not. Lurky is fluff, which doesn't dictate mechanics.</p><p></p><p>If we look at a monster the burrows in the ground and hides in ambush as lurky then PC's automatically fail any check that relies on sight because they cannot see it. That's the relevant rule to such a lurky creature. It's from the heavily obscured rule equals blind to that creature equals auto-fail those checks. A bonus to an auto-fail roll is irrelevant.</p><p></p><p>When checks are made (hearing it attack or noticing it burrowing out of the ground) doesn't change the behavior. It's already lurked and tried to ambush. The only difference is a higher perception enables reacting to the lurking ambush more effectively by not being surprised when it happens. Being attacked while surprised or being attacked while not being surprised is still being attacked from ambush or lurking.</p><p></p><p>The bottom line is 5e based ability checks off a d20 roll with no bonuses. If a monster is meant to have a bonus it would be there. Justifying the bonuses are incorrect based on description assumes an error not listed in the errata and would change some of the monsters' rules going from the basic rules or SRD to the full monster manual based on fluff that's more filled out in the MM but not the others. It makes no sense to do that,</p><p></p><p>So the ankheg example...</p><p></p><p>Ankhegs detect prey via tremor sense. The PC's fail stealth regardless of bonus unless they are flying or something. Tha ankhegs have total cover and concealment in the ground. The PC's fail any ability checks based on sight automatically regardless of bonus.</p><p></p><p>Ankhegs are lurking because that is their behavior. They have no bonus to stealth because that's typical of most monsters, including commoners and animals on whom they might prey (who have a small bonus to perception at best).</p><p></p><p>The party nears the ankhegs (who are totally obscured) and the DM determines if there is any surprise. The ankhegs are not surprised (tremor sense). The DM applies passive perception to the party members. Ankhegs are CR2 so going with 11th level characters a CR2 ankheg is not particularly challenging. The typical STR fighter, WIS cleric, and DEX rogue in my table above can add an INT wizard. Wizards don't get perception as a class proficiency and it's not included in recommended or typical backgrounds. The wizard also prioritizes INT, CON, DEX, and possibly CHA (enchanters) over WIS.</p><p></p><p>So passive perceptions are 20, 16, 15, and maybe 12. The rogue isn't surprised, the fighter and cleric might be surprised but are more often not, and the wizard has a solid chance of being surprised. The ankhegs could roll a 1 on stealth, fail to surprise anyone, and would still be lurking in ambush. The only difference perception makes is whether all of the party can act in the first round if the encounter. Give the ankhegs +20 stealth and the only difference it's going to make is the party doesn't act in the first round of combat.</p><p></p><p>Perception isn't some miracle skill that changed the auto-fail rule on visual checks or somehow prevents the ankhegs from lurking underground.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 7794693, member: 6750235"] Understanding the rules is important in understanding how to apply them. I do not. Lurky is fluff, which doesn't dictate mechanics. If we look at a monster the burrows in the ground and hides in ambush as lurky then PC's automatically fail any check that relies on sight because they cannot see it. That's the relevant rule to such a lurky creature. It's from the heavily obscured rule equals blind to that creature equals auto-fail those checks. A bonus to an auto-fail roll is irrelevant. When checks are made (hearing it attack or noticing it burrowing out of the ground) doesn't change the behavior. It's already lurked and tried to ambush. The only difference is a higher perception enables reacting to the lurking ambush more effectively by not being surprised when it happens. Being attacked while surprised or being attacked while not being surprised is still being attacked from ambush or lurking. The bottom line is 5e based ability checks off a d20 roll with no bonuses. If a monster is meant to have a bonus it would be there. Justifying the bonuses are incorrect based on description assumes an error not listed in the errata and would change some of the monsters' rules going from the basic rules or SRD to the full monster manual based on fluff that's more filled out in the MM but not the others. It makes no sense to do that, So the ankheg example... Ankhegs detect prey via tremor sense. The PC's fail stealth regardless of bonus unless they are flying or something. Tha ankhegs have total cover and concealment in the ground. The PC's fail any ability checks based on sight automatically regardless of bonus. Ankhegs are lurking because that is their behavior. They have no bonus to stealth because that's typical of most monsters, including commoners and animals on whom they might prey (who have a small bonus to perception at best). The party nears the ankhegs (who are totally obscured) and the DM determines if there is any surprise. The ankhegs are not surprised (tremor sense). The DM applies passive perception to the party members. Ankhegs are CR2 so going with 11th level characters a CR2 ankheg is not particularly challenging. The typical STR fighter, WIS cleric, and DEX rogue in my table above can add an INT wizard. Wizards don't get perception as a class proficiency and it's not included in recommended or typical backgrounds. The wizard also prioritizes INT, CON, DEX, and possibly CHA (enchanters) over WIS. So passive perceptions are 20, 16, 15, and maybe 12. The rogue isn't surprised, the fighter and cleric might be surprised but are more often not, and the wizard has a solid chance of being surprised. The ankhegs could roll a 1 on stealth, fail to surprise anyone, and would still be lurking in ambush. The only difference perception makes is whether all of the party can act in the first round if the encounter. Give the ankhegs +20 stealth and the only difference it's going to make is the party doesn't act in the first round of combat. Perception isn't some miracle skill that changed the auto-fail rule on visual checks or somehow prevents the ankhegs from lurking underground. [/QUOTE]
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