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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 8993207" data-attributes="member: 20323">I'm also fascinated by these sorts of explorative maths breakdowns, even if I find they usually break down when put to the actual play test.For example, trying to go backwards with this kind of system doesn't work. &quot;If we say an ettin is level 5 challenge suitable for one 5th level PC, then five 1st-level PCs should be able to...&quot; – and then you end up with some chunky salsa PCs.Not that the CR system works well in this regard anyhow. Plus we have recent confirmation from the D&amp;D Creators Summit that the WotC internal monster design tools do not reflect what's in the DMG (we can see this in monsters like the Quickling, for example, which the DMG scores as being CR 2 to 3, compared to VGtM which lists it as CR 1).Recognizing that all those guidelines are pretty borked...I usually pay more attention to monster damage output compared to PC hit points (I use a d8 Hit Die and 12 Constitution as a &quot;typical adventurer&quot;). Basically, with my &quot;at a glance&quot; evaluation of a prepared battle, I'm wondering: Is there a decent probability that this monster would knock out the entire fresh party in one turn or outright kill a fresh PC in one turn? (i.e. without allowing player agency to save themselves barring reaction powers) If I answer &quot;yes&quot;, that's a sign that the fight is probably too much and if I decide to go forward with it, I need to flex my GM artistry. That rule-of-thumb has, in my 5e games, been a pretty good guiding light.To look over your chart with those values in mind...<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Est. Level</td><td>Monster</td><td>Monster Damage (Average)</td><td>PC Hit Points (Average)</td><td>Difference</td></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>Orc</td><td>9</td><td>9</td><td>= 0</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>Ettin</td><td>28</td><td>33</td><td>= 5</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>Frost Giant</td><td>50</td><td>63</td><td>= 13</td></tr><tr><td>15</td><td>Arcanaloth (finger of death)</td><td>62</td><td>93</td><td>= 31</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>Death Knight (staggering smite)</td><td>95</td><td>123</td><td>= 28</td></tr></table></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 8993207, member: 20323"] I'm also fascinated by these sorts of explorative maths breakdowns, even if I find they usually break down when put to the actual play test. For example, trying to go backwards with this kind of system doesn't work. "If we say an ettin is level 5 challenge suitable for one 5th level PC, then five 1st-level PCs should be able to..." – and then you end up with some chunky salsa PCs. Not that the CR system works well in this regard anyhow. Plus we have recent confirmation from the D&D Creators Summit that the WotC internal monster design tools do not reflect what's in the DMG (we can see this in monsters like the Quickling, for example, which the DMG scores as being CR 2 to 3, compared to VGtM which lists it as CR 1). Recognizing that all those guidelines are pretty borked... I usually pay more attention to monster damage output compared to PC hit points (I use a d8 Hit Die and 12 Constitution as a "typical adventurer"). Basically, with my "at a glance" evaluation of a prepared battle, I'm wondering: Is there a decent probability that this monster would knock out the entire fresh party in one turn or outright kill a fresh PC in one turn? (i.e. without allowing player agency to save themselves barring reaction powers) If I answer "yes", that's a sign that the fight is probably too much and if I decide to go forward with it, I need to flex my GM artistry. That rule-of-thumb has, in my 5e games, been a pretty good guiding light. To look over your chart with those values in mind... [TABLE] [TR] [TD]Est. Level[/TD] [TD]Monster[/TD] [TD]Monster Damage (Average)[/TD] [TD]PC Hit Points (Average)[/TD] [TD]Difference[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]Orc[/TD] [TD]9[/TD] [TD]9[/TD] [TD]= 0[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]5[/TD] [TD]Ettin[/TD] [TD]28[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]= 5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]10[/TD] [TD]Frost Giant[/TD] [TD]50[/TD] [TD]63[/TD] [TD]= 13[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]15[/TD] [TD]Arcanaloth (finger of death)[/TD] [TD]62[/TD] [TD]93[/TD] [TD]= 31[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]20[/TD] [TD]Death Knight (staggering smite)[/TD] [TD]95[/TD] [TD]123[/TD] [TD]= 28[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/QUOTE]

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