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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 8993810" data-attributes="member: 20323">Yeah, that's a really useful tool that I wish the designers provided because it says a lot about the assumptions of the game. There's an analysis – can't find the link – a fan did of how many goblins a 1st level fighter kills throughout the editions before the fighter is taken down. That sort of thing is invaluable to establish a baseline.I'll take a stab at a chart for the Rogue (Thief), since it's an easier starting point.Assumptions:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Overall, I'm assuming a non-optimizing player who is experienced enough to run the class effectively in combat.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rogue with Thief subclass</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">16 in prime ability score (Dex) at 1st, up to 18 at 4th (ASI), and 20 at 8th (ASI).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">12 Constitution.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Max HP at 1st, average HP after 1st level.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wearing studded leather (AC = 12+Dex) & wielding a rapier one-handed.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At 10th level, 12th, 16th, and 19th levels picks up feats or ASIs to flesh out the character that don't necessarily affect the numbers on this table.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Reliably adds Sneak Attack damage once per round, thanks to subclass features, Hiding, allies working together, or opportunity attacks.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cunning Action (2nd level) is roughly worth a +1 AC bonus for getting distance from melee, avoiding opportunity attacks, and being hidden. This is a low value assumption because PCs have more uses for bonus actions typically, and sometimes you just don't have a great way to Hide. I think you could safely increase this instead to +2 AC, assuming that the rogue Hides about half the time with Cunning Action.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Starting at 5th level, Uncanny Dodge allows the rogue to halve damage from one attack per round. First, I'm assuming that a rogue gets to use Uncanny Dodge about once per day/rest (due to a combo of avoiding being targeted in the first place, some monsters forcing saves, or the rogue using their reaction for other things). This is a low-ball assumption...Uncanny Dodge might contribute up to 3x that in a particularly intense melee. Second, we need a sense of what <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202476/what-is-the-average-damage-per-attack-for-monsters-by-cr" target="_blank">average monster damage</a> actually looks like by CR (tl;dr the SRD monsters' avg damage caps close to 20 at CR 11+). This number might look different factorign VGtM, MToF, MMotM, and newer books. Third, we need to make some kind of assumption about "Typical Monster CR" encountered at each level – I'm going with CR = Level - 2 (i.e. CR 3 at 5th, etc). So I've created an Avg Monster Atk Dmg column, and added half of that to the rogue's HP (rounded down) starting at 5th level when they get Uncanny Dodge. Though this is a BIG assumption at lower levels, if that ~20 damage cap holds true, then it stops being a significant assumption at higher levels.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Thief's Reflexes (17th level) allow for an extra turn at the start of combat. This equates to approximately a +33% increase in damage, assuming typical 3-round combats.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Elusive (18th level) is roughly worth another +1 AC bonus. Just eyeballing it.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Stroke of Luck (20th level) is roughly worth a +1 bonus to attack (i.e. comparable to Advantage once per combat, which is +4 divided by 3... rounded down to +1).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I wasn't sure about how to factor critical hit damage, so for simplicity I left it out for now.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">For comparison purposes, I did not include magic weapons/items.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">While I did not include Advantage in the Attack Bonus, my GM hunch is that a rogue has Advantage on maybe half of its attack rolls. The <a href="https://imgur.com/xqweV7c" target="_blank">median bonus</a> from Advantage over all target rolls is +4. So, I think a safe assumption may be increasing the rogue's attack bonus universally by +2.</li> </ul><table style='width: 100%'><tr><th>Rogue Level</th><th>Avg Monster Atk Dmg (of a monster whose CR = level -2)</th><th>HP</th><th>AC</th><th>DPR</th><th>Attack Bonus</th></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>–</td><td>9</td><td>15</td><td>11 (1d8+3+1d6)</td><td>+5</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>–</td><td>15</td><td>16</td><td>11</td><td>+5</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>–</td><td>21</td><td>16</td><td>14.5 (1d8+3+2d6)</td><td>+5</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>–</td><td>27</td><td>17</td><td>14.5</td><td>+6</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>10</td><td>38 (33+5)</td><td>17</td><td>19 (1d8+4+3d6)</td><td>+7</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>12</td><td>45 (39+6)</td><td>17</td><td>19</td><td>+7</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>15</td><td>52 (45+7)</td><td>17</td><td>22.5 (1d8+4+4d6)</td><td>+7</td></tr><tr><td>8</td><td>15</td><td>58 (51+7)</td><td>18</td><td>22.5</td><td>+8</td></tr><tr><td>9</td><td>17</td><td>65 (57+8)</td><td>18</td><td>27 (1d8+5+5d6)</td><td>+9</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>17</td><td>71 (63+8)</td><td>18</td><td>27</td><td>+9</td></tr><tr><td>11</td><td>20</td><td>79 (69+10)</td><td>18</td><td>30.5 (1d8+5+6d6)</td><td>+9</td></tr><tr><td>12</td><td>20</td><td>85 (75+10)</td><td>18</td><td>30.5</td><td>+9</td></tr><tr><td>13</td><td>20</td><td>91 (81+10)</td><td>18</td><td>34 (1d8+5+7d6)</td><td>+10</td></tr><tr><td>14</td><td>20</td><td>97 (87+10)</td><td>18</td><td>34</td><td>+10</td></tr><tr><td>15</td><td>20</td><td>103 (93+10)</td><td>18</td><td>37.5 (1d8+5+8d6)</td><td>+10</td></tr><tr><td>16</td><td>20</td><td>109 (99+10)</td><td>18</td><td>37.5</td><td>+10</td></tr><tr><td>17</td><td>20</td><td>115 (105+10)</td><td>18</td><td>54.5 [1.33* (1d8+5+9d6)]</td><td>+11</td></tr><tr><td>18</td><td>20</td><td>121 (111+10)</td><td>19</td><td>54.5</td><td>+11</td></tr><tr><td>19</td><td>20</td><td>127 (117+10)</td><td>19</td><td>59 [1.33*(1d8+5+10d6)]</td><td>+11</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>20</td><td>133 (123+10)</td><td>19</td><td>59</td><td>+12</td></tr></table>Now we can take some of those values for the Rogue (Thief) and cross-reference with the example monsters you gave – Orc, Ettin, Frost Giant, Arcanaloth, Death Knight – and see what shakes out...<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Est. Level</td><td>Monster</td><td>Monster DPR (Average)</td><td>Monster Attack Bonus</td><td>Rogue's AC</td><td>Factored Damage (%hit * DPR)</td><td>Rogue's HP</td><td>% Reduction to HP</td></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>Orc</td><td>9</td><td>+5</td><td>15</td><td>5 (.55 * 9)</td><td>9</td><td>55%</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>Ettin</td><td>28</td><td>+7</td><td>17</td><td>15 (.55 * 28)</td><td>38</td><td>39%</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>Frost Giant</td><td>50</td><td>+9</td><td>18</td><td>30 (.6 * 50)</td><td>71</td><td>42%</td></tr><tr><td>15</td><td>Arcanaloth (finger of death)</td><td>62</td><td>save DC 17</td><td>CON save +1</td><td>46 (.75 * 62)</td><td>103</td><td>45%</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>Death Knight (staggering smite)</td><td>95</td><td>+11</td><td>19</td><td>62 (.65 * 95)</td><td>133</td><td>47%</td></tr></table></blockquote>

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