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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 9385764" data-attributes="member: 72555">Your Rogue doesn't use Uncanny Dodge; that is a pile of mitigation.Your fighter ... doesn't seem to use second wind?  149.5 HP plus (con bonus)*20.If it is a "3 rounds between short rests", the fighter gets 5 actions and 3 bonus actions over 3 rounds; so 20 attacks plus 3 bonus actions.  Maybe a PAM for 23 attacks?  At 20 attacks that is ~19 damage per attack, at 23 ~16.5.  Those are strange numbers; too low for -5/+10, high for most other cases.PAM staff+3+shield duelist with a 25 strength giant belt?  +7 str, +3 enchant, +2 duelist is 1d6+12 and 1d4+12 damage; slightly low.PAM GWF halbard+3 GWF with 25 strength giant belt?  +7 str, +3 enchant, +10 GWF, 1d10/1d4 damage for 25.5/22.5 damage.Naive duelist rapier+3 fighter with 20 dex and a +3 sword does 1d8+10(14.5) per swing, gets 20 swings over 3 rounds for 97 DPR at +14 to hit.Naive GWM Flaming GS fighter with 25 strength (belt) does 4d6+17(32.3) per swing, gets 20 swings over 3 rounds 215 DPR at +8 to hit (plus bonus crit hits)Naive oathbow SS fighter with 20 dex does 1d8+3d6+15(30) per attack, gets 20 shots over 3 rounds (200 DPR) at +8 to hit (with advantage).Daily resources need to take into account hit dice.  You appear to only care about encounter resources?  That really warps stuff.A naive rogue is 12d6+11 damage (53) per round.  Booming blade ups this to 60s.  XBE/SS based hits 78.Not sure how you hit 81.  Did you take into account accuracy somehow?An more optimized rogue with a scimiltar of speed and booming blade does 22d6+14+3d8 = 104.5 DPR at +13 accuracy.If you are burning daily resources, meteor swarm (140 massive aoe), delayed blast fireball (ally throws it, cast before the fight) of 20d6 (70 aoe),  distintegrate(s) (75), dark star (44 damage per round, 1 action to start off), summon fiend (70 damage per round concentration at level 8 slot).An active fiend (70 DPR: 4 attacks at 1d12+11 damage) or similar, meteor swarm (280 damage; assume you can get 2 targets (heh)), disintegrate x2 (150) is a level 20 wizard 3-round combo at 213 DPR without any real optimization.  Of course you burnt 2 6th an 8th and a 9th level slot, and not very efficiently (those damage spells are often not the most powerful options).A Cleric who casts an 8th level Spirit Guardians does 36 AOE damage every round.  Add in a 6th level Spiritual Weapon (18.5 DPR), one toll the dead (26), and a flame strike (28 aoe). (36*3*2 + 18.5*2 + 26 + 28*2)/3 is 112 DPR without even being creative (assumes at least 2 targets for aoes, but doesn't give credit for save-for-half).And you instead account for the clerics healing, each 6th level slot is 70 HP, and a 9th level slot is "everyone is full HP", which have insane impact.  Let alone the impact of "mass cure wounds" or the like (74 healed+22.5 per slot level over 5).The amount of HP a cleric adds to the PC budget is large at higher levels (in an encounter)....Maybe pick a specific class you want to emulate and a specific level of optimization.  Then model that a bit better.Like we could model a "soldier" to be a "champion fighter who uses a longsword and shield, duelist, sentinal, plate, buffs str and con".  Medium-optimized.Feats:Starts with 16 str/14 con.  ASI: +4 str, +6 con (5), Sentinal, OtherFighting Style: Interception (11.5 damage per round soaked), Duelist.HP budget: 6*20 + 4 (base) + 5*20 (con) + 1d10+20 (second wind) + 20 (Survivor) + 11.5*3 interception=~ 304 soaked over 3 rounds.Damage budget (+3 longsword): 1d8+10 per swing, 20 swings over 3 rounds = 97 DPR at +14 ATK.AC: +2 Plate, +3 Shield (25)3 uses of Indomidable (worth ???)18-20 crit range (worth 4.5 "perfect accuracy" DPR).This is a concrete, actual PC fighter that isn't especially optimized.You can use 4e inspired "roles" to make archtypes like this for each of:Soldier/Brute (maybe 2, maybe 1).Skimisher (close based, duck in duck out, relatively fragile)Artillery (ranged based, relatively fragile, damage based)Controller (like Artillery but messes with people instead of raw damage)actual, concrete PCs, not super optimized, to base your monsters off of.</blockquote>

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