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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7539016" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>@<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6799753" target="_blank">lowkey13</a></u></strong></em></p><p> </p><p>I’m going to agree with @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6801328" target="_blank">Elfcrusher</a></u></strong></em> here. </p><p> </p><p>I tend to think of D&D Fighters as representing the tails of the (demi)human distribution in the same way that world class Jiujitsu players like Renzo Gracie, a boxer like Vasyl Lomachenko, and a QB like Drew Brees would be.</p><p> </p><p>My guess is that as you move toward that tail, the ability to perform immediate multivariate analysis (particularly when those variables include spatial relationships, relative velocities, force/angle requirements to propel a familiar object or compel a relatively proportionate mass/force) increases dramatically in speed (this would be measured in obviously very small units regardless) and accuracy. Their processing speed and the accuracy of their processing speed is borderline superhuman when dealing with an integrated set of variables (that certainly hook into selection pressures that our ancestors faced from East African chimp-dom onward).</p><p> </p><p>For instance, the ability of Dree Brees to perform the following with unbelievable accuracy is extremely far beyond the pale of your average human.</p><p> </p><p>1) Read 4-5 keys (that are each trying to be disguised via alignment) and determine the back 7 coverage scheme of an NFL defense (of which there are dozens), including determine if any blitzes are on, where they are coming from, and make sure protections are adequate, and communicate any hot-read adjustments to eligible receivers if there are any formational issues (eg you don’t have enough people to pick up a potential blitz on the weak side of the formation).</p><p></p><p>2) Prioritize your passing progressions based on your presnap coverage read.</p><p> </p><p>The above 2 things have to take place in an extremely short window (typically around 5-7 seconds).</p><p> </p><p>Then, post-snap they have to:</p><p> </p><p>3) Confirm their read in the span of inside of a second (which means post-snap reading multiple keys that are often not in the same “UI window”)…while you’re dropping back with appropriate footwork.</p><p></p><p>4) Get the ball out…on time…with accuracy and ball placement to your primary read if it isn’t taken away from you by a Flat/Hook-Zone (for example) defender playing the route combo you’re looking at. </p><p></p><p>5) If that 1st read is taken away, immediately get to that 2nd, and possibly 3rd (which often involves panning a full 90 degrees left or right), read while being aware of the pass rush (and doing the actual computations of OL<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />L relationships but not actually looking at them), climbing or sliding in the pocket if you need to (again, in-pocket evasion without actually looking at the dynamics of the pass rush and the pocket…merely “feeling” it…which is the output of subconscious, multivariate calculations).</p><p></p><p>6) Process/assimilate all of the (now very changed) information regarding spatial relationships, relative velocities, your ability to get the ball out with enough velocity and on time (and often over the underneath coverage).</p><p> </p><p>All of 3-6 happens in an interval of less than 3 seconds.</p><p></p><p>Again, or someone like Renzo Gracie or Vasyl Lomachenko who are basically performing Go with the added variables of physical elements and the threat of extreme damage to their person.</p><p> </p><p>The OODA Loop of alpha, tail-of-the-distribution physical performers of our world (and we aren’t facing the sorts of stakes that a D&D Fighter would be) is just something well beyond your average human. I’m a very good athlete and my OODA Loop (when it comes to what I’ve quoted above) is well beyond your average person (in terms of speed and accuracy). But I’m not close to the tails of the human distribution. Not even close. There processing power (moreso than their physical prowess) sets these guys apart as absolute genetic freaks more than anything else. I tend to think that your average D&D Fighter is more tails-of-the-distribution than it is “above average joe”.</p><p> </p><p> @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=29398" target="_blank">Lanefan</a></u></strong></em></p><p> </p><p>I’ll get into your post a little bit more later. Let me quickly say that you’re extrapolating from “be Falstaff the fighter” is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than I would say is intended in Gygax’s quip and then you’re using your extrapolation as a rider on the rest of Gygax’s (and maybe even B/X as its contemporary?) DMG. To wit, I think your extrapolation is wrong and when your first principles are wrong, the work you intend for what comes after it is pretty much always off.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7539016, member: 6696971"] @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6799753"]lowkey13[/URL][/U][/B][/I] I’m going to agree with @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6801328"]Elfcrusher[/URL][/U][/B][/I] here. I tend to think of D&D Fighters as representing the tails of the (demi)human distribution in the same way that world class Jiujitsu players like Renzo Gracie, a boxer like Vasyl Lomachenko, and a QB like Drew Brees would be. My guess is that as you move toward that tail, the ability to perform immediate multivariate analysis (particularly when those variables include spatial relationships, relative velocities, force/angle requirements to propel a familiar object or compel a relatively proportionate mass/force) increases dramatically in speed (this would be measured in obviously very small units regardless) and accuracy. Their processing speed and the accuracy of their processing speed is borderline superhuman when dealing with an integrated set of variables (that certainly hook into selection pressures that our ancestors faced from East African chimp-dom onward). For instance, the ability of Dree Brees to perform the following with unbelievable accuracy is extremely far beyond the pale of your average human. 1) Read 4-5 keys (that are each trying to be disguised via alignment) and determine the back 7 coverage scheme of an NFL defense (of which there are dozens), including determine if any blitzes are on, where they are coming from, and make sure protections are adequate, and communicate any hot-read adjustments to eligible receivers if there are any formational issues (eg you don’t have enough people to pick up a potential blitz on the weak side of the formation). 2) Prioritize your passing progressions based on your presnap coverage read. The above 2 things have to take place in an extremely short window (typically around 5-7 seconds). Then, post-snap they have to: 3) Confirm their read in the span of inside of a second (which means post-snap reading multiple keys that are often not in the same “UI window”)…while you’re dropping back with appropriate footwork. 4) Get the ball out…on time…with accuracy and ball placement to your primary read if it isn’t taken away from you by a Flat/Hook-Zone (for example) defender playing the route combo you’re looking at. 5) If that 1st read is taken away, immediately get to that 2nd, and possibly 3rd (which often involves panning a full 90 degrees left or right), read while being aware of the pass rush (and doing the actual computations of OL:DL relationships but not actually looking at them), climbing or sliding in the pocket if you need to (again, in-pocket evasion without actually looking at the dynamics of the pass rush and the pocket…merely “feeling” it…which is the output of subconscious, multivariate calculations). 6) Process/assimilate all of the (now very changed) information regarding spatial relationships, relative velocities, your ability to get the ball out with enough velocity and on time (and often over the underneath coverage). All of 3-6 happens in an interval of less than 3 seconds. Again, or someone like Renzo Gracie or Vasyl Lomachenko who are basically performing Go with the added variables of physical elements and the threat of extreme damage to their person. The OODA Loop of alpha, tail-of-the-distribution physical performers of our world (and we aren’t facing the sorts of stakes that a D&D Fighter would be) is just something well beyond your average human. I’m a very good athlete and my OODA Loop (when it comes to what I’ve quoted above) is well beyond your average person (in terms of speed and accuracy). But I’m not close to the tails of the human distribution. Not even close. There processing power (moreso than their physical prowess) sets these guys apart as absolute genetic freaks more than anything else. I tend to think that your average D&D Fighter is more tails-of-the-distribution than it is “above average joe”. @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=29398"]Lanefan[/URL][/U][/B][/I] I’ll get into your post a little bit more later. Let me quickly say that you’re extrapolating from “be Falstaff the fighter” is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than I would say is intended in Gygax’s quip and then you’re using your extrapolation as a rider on the rest of Gygax’s (and maybe even B/X as its contemporary?) DMG. To wit, I think your extrapolation is wrong and when your first principles are wrong, the work you intend for what comes after it is pretty much always off. [/QUOTE]
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