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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7484815" data-attributes="member: 97077">Typically when someone says &quot;we need a rogue,&quot; it's because there is a perception of needing a character that can pick locks and disable traps. Anyone with proficiency in thieves' tools (such as a criminal or urchin character) can do that. The rogue can take expertise in thieves' tools though which is nice, but a bard can take that as well.Some of this also depends on how the DM handles traps and locks. In my games, a rogue with the thief subclass is very valuable in a dungeon because of Fast Hands. Because of the way I set times for dungeon tasks, this means cutting a typical trap interaction down to 20 minutes instead of 30 minutes or a locked door or chest interaction to less than 10 minutes. This means there are fewer wandering monster checks for the party. (And if two other PCs Work Together with the thief and grant the rogue two more tasks during the exploration turn, a trap can be found, figured out, and disarmed in 10 minutes, or two fewer wandering monster checks than normal in that scene.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7484815, member: 97077"] Typically when someone says "we need a rogue," it's because there is a perception of needing a character that can pick locks and disable traps. Anyone with proficiency in thieves' tools (such as a criminal or urchin character) can do that. The rogue can take expertise in thieves' tools though which is nice, but a bard can take that as well. Some of this also depends on how the DM handles traps and locks. In my games, a rogue with the thief subclass is very valuable in a dungeon because of Fast Hands. Because of the way I set times for dungeon tasks, this means cutting a typical trap interaction down to 20 minutes instead of 30 minutes or a locked door or chest interaction to less than 10 minutes. This means there are fewer wandering monster checks for the party. (And if two other PCs Work Together with the thief and grant the rogue two more tasks during the exploration turn, a trap can be found, figured out, and disarmed in 10 minutes, or two fewer wandering monster checks than normal in that scene.) [/QUOTE]

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