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Community
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5e should develop more Defender role mechanics
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<blockquote data-quote="AtomicPope" data-source="post: 8283201" data-attributes="member: 64790"><p>In my campaign (now 20th level with boons) one of the PCs is a Cavalier and the Unwavering Mark and Warding Maneuver work surprisingly well. The big problem I have with "marks" in general is the fighters pretty much always have the best AC in the group by a long shot. In 4e it was a paltry -2. Our epic Cavalier has AC27, and is pretty much nigh untouchable. If the marking feature of 4e went straight into 5e it would be useless. Without a reason to attack a tank anything less than a giant would go for everyone else in the party because the AC gap is massive, at 5 points lower is the next best. However, since Unwavering Mark grants disadvantage it usually means that even though I'm hitting someone else, my chances of scoring a critical hit are VERY low.</p><p></p><p>The Warding Maneuver is a high enough AC bonus to parry incoming attacks, and since it's a different mechanic it stacks with Unwavering Mark. BBEGs still square off with the Cavalier to fight him. The best part about their defender option Warding Maneuver is it works for themselves too. This gives us the impression of an epic duel. They can boost their own AC and gain resistance (half damage) to the attack, like parrying or blocking attacks. That also means a Cavalier can hunker down behind his shield and take half damage from things like a dragon's breath when he couldn't possibly make a DC 25 Dex save at 20th level. Or, tank the hit and use that on a softer party member who failed their save.</p><p></p><p>Hold the Line is nice but at this level a lot of monsters have reach, teleportation (we're in the Abyss), and flight. Vigilant Defender can get a little crazy. There was one fight when they were seaching a prison in the Abyss and the prison guard caught them. It called in a dozen other fiends came charging down the hallway, Minotaurs with a Demonic Boons from Mordenkainen's Tome. The Cavalier went nuts with his opportunity attacks. What made it "feel" like a defender is he would intentionally move in the way to stop the charging Minotaur fiends and with Hold the Line they couldn't just charge past him. What ended up happening is several Minotaurs got caught and stuck, creating like a wall of bodies. Others had to move far around him, dashing rather than charging, and wasting their movement in the process. It was really impressive. It made me consciously stop using demons that teleported since I saw how much fun a very tactical combat was for them.</p><p></p><p>If someone wants to play a "Defender" type fighter than this is the subclass to do it. WIthout a doubt, even if you were to only take 7 levels it works great. Warding Maneuver is a game changer.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AtomicPope, post: 8283201, member: 64790"] In my campaign (now 20th level with boons) one of the PCs is a Cavalier and the Unwavering Mark and Warding Maneuver work surprisingly well. The big problem I have with "marks" in general is the fighters pretty much always have the best AC in the group by a long shot. In 4e it was a paltry -2. Our epic Cavalier has AC27, and is pretty much nigh untouchable. If the marking feature of 4e went straight into 5e it would be useless. Without a reason to attack a tank anything less than a giant would go for everyone else in the party because the AC gap is massive, at 5 points lower is the next best. However, since Unwavering Mark grants disadvantage it usually means that even though I'm hitting someone else, my chances of scoring a critical hit are VERY low. The Warding Maneuver is a high enough AC bonus to parry incoming attacks, and since it's a different mechanic it stacks with Unwavering Mark. BBEGs still square off with the Cavalier to fight him. The best part about their defender option Warding Maneuver is it works for themselves too. This gives us the impression of an epic duel. They can boost their own AC and gain resistance (half damage) to the attack, like parrying or blocking attacks. That also means a Cavalier can hunker down behind his shield and take half damage from things like a dragon's breath when he couldn't possibly make a DC 25 Dex save at 20th level. Or, tank the hit and use that on a softer party member who failed their save. Hold the Line is nice but at this level a lot of monsters have reach, teleportation (we're in the Abyss), and flight. Vigilant Defender can get a little crazy. There was one fight when they were seaching a prison in the Abyss and the prison guard caught them. It called in a dozen other fiends came charging down the hallway, Minotaurs with a Demonic Boons from Mordenkainen's Tome. The Cavalier went nuts with his opportunity attacks. What made it "feel" like a defender is he would intentionally move in the way to stop the charging Minotaur fiends and with Hold the Line they couldn't just charge past him. What ended up happening is several Minotaurs got caught and stuck, creating like a wall of bodies. Others had to move far around him, dashing rather than charging, and wasting their movement in the process. It was really impressive. It made me consciously stop using demons that teleported since I saw how much fun a very tactical combat was for them. If someone wants to play a "Defender" type fighter than this is the subclass to do it. WIthout a doubt, even if you were to only take 7 levels it works great. Warding Maneuver is a game changer. [/QUOTE]
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