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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8766140" data-attributes="member: 7030563">I don't know if I really agree with this.I have an 8 Strength Goblin Ranger who can beat most Dragons on an opposed athletics check most of the time and she isn't even fully invested in the skill, if she had actually invested in strength and something giving her advantage (like a barbarian multiclass), she would probably never lose a contested athletics check in play.&nbsp; It would be possible to lose, but not very likely to happen considering you are probably only rolling 1 or 2 such checks a level.The Ranger class and backgrounds like Outlander and Archeologist can make some checks automatic successes regarless of skill level and since DC is capped at 30 and you can retry until you succeed, a Rogue can automatically open any lock in the game in 10 minutes at level 5 with expertise or a Ranger at 5th level can find any findable thing in 10 minutes with perception expertise and an 18 Wisdom.At 5th level anyone with expertise and an 18 ability will pass any check in the game given the 10 minutes required for automatic success (DMG page 237).&nbsp; With a 20 ability and regular proficiency you can do this at level 13 for any check.&nbsp; This is for a DC of 30, which I find is extremely rare.&nbsp; A very hard DC (25) can be done by any character even without proficiency once they maxed the stat or at first level with a +3 stat and proficiency and 10 minutes.&nbsp; A hard (20) DC is automatic at 1st level in 10 minutes with a 10 in the ability and no proficiency.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8766140, member: 7030563"] I don't know if I really agree with this. I have an 8 Strength Goblin Ranger who can beat most Dragons on an opposed athletics check most of the time and she isn't even fully invested in the skill, if she had actually invested in strength and something giving her advantage (like a barbarian multiclass), she would probably never lose a contested athletics check in play. It would be possible to lose, but not very likely to happen considering you are probably only rolling 1 or 2 such checks a level. The Ranger class and backgrounds like Outlander and Archeologist can make some checks automatic successes regarless of skill level and since DC is capped at 30 and you can retry until you succeed, a Rogue can automatically open any lock in the game in 10 minutes at level 5 with expertise or a Ranger at 5th level can find any findable thing in 10 minutes with perception expertise and an 18 Wisdom. At 5th level anyone with expertise and an 18 ability will pass any check in the game given the 10 minutes required for automatic success (DMG page 237). With a 20 ability and regular proficiency you can do this at level 13 for any check. This is for a DC of 30, which I find is extremely rare. A very hard DC (25) can be done by any character even without proficiency once they maxed the stat or at first level with a +3 stat and proficiency and 10 minutes. A hard (20) DC is automatic at 1st level in 10 minutes with a 10 in the ability and no proficiency. [/QUOTE]

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