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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5956301" data-attributes="member: 54877">I completely endorse the approach of Perception as a &quot;mechanic family&quot; that tells you how to do Wisdom checks using other skills.&nbsp; Nice idea.&nbsp; Are there other critically important groups of skills that should get this treatment?&nbsp; I can almost see Animal Handling (broadly construed) as being one.&nbsp; For that matter, Diplomacy itself probably falls into that category, though then you need something else for the actual skill of being Diplomatic.&nbsp; (Perhaps Diplomacy is retained as the narrower skill of formal diplomacy, with Negotiation as the mechanic family that includes intimidation, gather information, etc.)&nbsp;Outside of those, whatever the list, I think the problem is that there are basically conceptually narrow, but practically useful, adventuring skills (like Sneak, Lockpicking, Riding, Sailing, etc.) and then there is everything else (Folklore, Playing instruments, Professions, etc.)&nbsp; One of the main reasons that &quot;professions&quot; and &quot;knowledges&quot; fail as skills is how they stack up not only with those adventuring skills but also how things like &quot;Use rope&quot; sneak into the main skill list, in the name of diversity.&nbsp;Since we already have traits in backgrounds, and the potential for extra skills in classes (ala the playtest rogue), what if a Background generally gives you one trait, one adventuring skill, and then a couple of made up, open-ended skills?&nbsp; The adventuring skill comes from a defined list.&nbsp; The open-ended skills are appropriate for the background.&nbsp; Where it makes sense, a background might have two traits and no adventuring skill, or vice versa.&nbsp; Then classes can supplement the skill list with more skills from the defined list and/or open-ended ones.&nbsp;Or in other words, I don't much like PS:Blacksmith tacked on in a general skill list, but like better Background:Blacksmith with adventuring skills Appraise or Endurance or similar, with trait &quot;Hardy&quot;, supplemented by open-ended skills Handy and Metalworker.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5956301, member: 54877"] I completely endorse the approach of Perception as a "mechanic family" that tells you how to do Wisdom checks using other skills. Nice idea. Are there other critically important groups of skills that should get this treatment? I can almost see Animal Handling (broadly construed) as being one. For that matter, Diplomacy itself probably falls into that category, though then you need something else for the actual skill of being Diplomatic. (Perhaps Diplomacy is retained as the narrower skill of formal diplomacy, with Negotiation as the mechanic family that includes intimidation, gather information, etc.) Outside of those, whatever the list, I think the problem is that there are basically conceptually narrow, but practically useful, adventuring skills (like Sneak, Lockpicking, Riding, Sailing, etc.) and then there is everything else (Folklore, Playing instruments, Professions, etc.) One of the main reasons that "professions" and "knowledges" fail as skills is how they stack up not only with those adventuring skills but also how things like "Use rope" sneak into the main skill list, in the name of diversity. Since we already have traits in backgrounds, and the potential for extra skills in classes (ala the playtest rogue), what if a Background generally gives you one trait, one adventuring skill, and then a couple of made up, open-ended skills? The adventuring skill comes from a defined list. The open-ended skills are appropriate for the background. Where it makes sense, a background might have two traits and no adventuring skill, or vice versa. Then classes can supplement the skill list with more skills from the defined list and/or open-ended ones. Or in other words, I don't much like PS:Blacksmith tacked on in a general skill list, but like better Background:Blacksmith with adventuring skills Appraise or Endurance or similar, with trait "Hardy", supplemented by open-ended skills Handy and Metalworker. [/QUOTE]

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