Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Jon Gilliam" data-source="post: 8037376" data-attributes="member: 6920404">You're written a lot to respond to, so I'll take it in chunks.&nbsp; I'm uncertain that we have any real disagreement on this first point.&nbsp; Your allies clearly notice you, and that is clearly not enough for surprise where opponents must notice a threat.&nbsp; So, I stand with my previous statement : whenever opponents notice you &quot;as a threat&quot;, your allies meeting the same criteria notice you as a threat as well.&nbsp; I don't think there's a reason to call that out more emphatically.But, it is the case that non-hidden opponents are automatically noticed and do make your entire side of the combat &quot;immune&quot; to surprise.&nbsp;&nbsp; We make the case for that in this FAQ, which asks the same question in a different way:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Does all of one side of an impending combat need to hide to have surprise? Yes.&nbsp; If even one opponent (one threat) is noticed by a member of the opposing side, then that creature is not surprised.&nbsp; All opposing creatures will perceive the presence of an unhidden party member as a threat and will therefore not be surprised.&nbsp; Since surprise is determined prior to the DM establishing the location of the characters and monsters, characters who do not declare they are hiding are assumed to have their presence perceived by their opponents in determining who is surprised.</li>
</ul></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jon Gilliam, post: 8037376, member: 6920404"] You're written a lot to respond to, so I'll take it in chunks. I'm uncertain that we have any real disagreement on this first point. Your allies clearly notice you, and that is clearly not enough for surprise where opponents must notice a threat. So, I stand with my previous statement : whenever opponents notice you "as a threat", your allies meeting the same criteria notice you as a threat as well. I don't think there's a reason to call that out more emphatically. But, it is the case that non-hidden opponents are automatically noticed and do make your entire side of the combat "immune" to surprise. We make the case for that in this FAQ, which asks the same question in a different way: [LIST] [*][B]Does all of one side of an impending combat need to hide to have surprise? [/B] Yes. If even one opponent (one threat) is noticed by a member of the opposing side, then that creature is not surprised. All opposing creatures will perceive the presence of an unhidden party member as a threat and will therefore not be surprised. Since surprise is determined prior to the DM establishing the location of the characters and monsters, characters who do not declare they are hiding are assumed to have their presence perceived by their opponents in determining who is surprised. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]

Verification