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<blockquote data-quote="Jon Gilliam" data-source="post: 8039024" data-attributes="member: 6920404">Since you state this so assertively, have you watched the he <a href="https://www.sageadvice.eu/2019/10/08/roll-for-initiative-the-ins-and-outs-of-beginning-combat-with-jeremy-crawford/?fbclid=IwAR0Hw94P6btzaMyanqcJ8UV-FSz7As0yC9_fUMdGrhQV5-vpK0PcDPBXn9s" target="_blank">Sage Advice video</a> on beginning combat and listened to the <a href="https://media.wizards.com/2017/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast_04_27_2017.mp3" target="_blank">Sage Advice podcast on hiding</a>?&nbsp; And have you also read through the answers to the two questions on surprise in the <a href="https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf" target="_blank">Sage Advice Compendium</a>?&nbsp; If not, go invest the time in listening to the designer of 5e discuss these topics, and see if you come away with the same opinion.All of these cases confirm that surprise is determined through the mechanic of Stealth versus passive Perception.&nbsp;&nbsp; The Sage Advice Compendium has this to say:Let's see what we have there... surprise is being<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Caught off guard</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Failing to notice foes being stealthy</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Being startled by an enemy with a special ability</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">All of your foes catching you unaware</li>
</ul>Even if you could be &quot;caught off guard&quot; by an opponent in a disguise, you still wouldn't be surprised if &quot;even one of your foes fails to catch you unawares.&quot;&nbsp; What the language &quot;notice a threat&quot; intends in the PHB p. 189 when it says&nbsp; is to mean &quot;failing to notice an opponent in hiding.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; That's apparent because that sentence comes immediately after the sentence describing how surprise is determined by comparing Stealth to passive Perception.&nbsp; To make &quot;notice a threat&quot; mean anything else, you have to pluck that second sentence out and read it in isolation, but that second sentence is even part of the same paragraph.&nbsp; You're stretching the rules and reading sentences out of context to give them the possibility of saying what you want them to say.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jon Gilliam, post: 8039024, member: 6920404"] Since you state this so assertively, have you watched the he [URL='https://www.sageadvice.eu/2019/10/08/roll-for-initiative-the-ins-and-outs-of-beginning-combat-with-jeremy-crawford/?fbclid=IwAR0Hw94P6btzaMyanqcJ8UV-FSz7As0yC9_fUMdGrhQV5-vpK0PcDPBXn9s']Sage Advice video[/URL] on beginning combat and listened to the [URL='https://media.wizards.com/2017/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast_04_27_2017.mp3']Sage Advice podcast on hiding[/URL]? And have you also read through the answers to the two questions on surprise in the [URL='https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf']Sage Advice Compendium[/URL]? If not, go invest the time in listening to the designer of 5e discuss these topics, and see if you come away with the same opinion. All of these cases confirm that surprise is determined through the mechanic of Stealth versus passive Perception. The Sage Advice Compendium has this to say: Let's see what we have there... surprise is being [LIST] [*]Caught off guard [*]Failing to notice foes being stealthy [*]Being startled by an enemy with a special ability [*]All of your foes catching you unaware [/LIST] Even if you could be "caught off guard" by an opponent in a disguise, you still wouldn't be surprised if "even one of your foes fails to catch you unawares." What the language "notice a threat" intends in the PHB p. 189 when it says is to mean "failing to notice an opponent in hiding." That's apparent because that sentence comes immediately after the sentence describing how surprise is determined by comparing Stealth to passive Perception. To make "notice a threat" mean anything else, you have to pluck that second sentence out and read it in isolation, but that second sentence is even part of the same paragraph. You're stretching the rules and reading sentences out of context to give them the possibility of saying what you want them to say. [/QUOTE]

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