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<blockquote data-quote="Jon Gilliam" data-source="post: 8039933" data-attributes="member: 6920404">Returning to the case where you're adjacent to an opponent who you've deceived into believing you're an ally, and you want to initiate surprise by suddenly attacking. To me, that sounds awfully close to how a rogue's &quot;Sneak Attack&quot; ability is described: &quot;you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe's distraction.&quot;I think if the designers had intended sneak attacks to be surprised-based, they would have done that in the rogue's ability. But if you read that ability, surprise doesn't even allow you to do a Sneak Attack. Sneak attacks only apply IF you have advantage on the attack roll on an adjacent enemy, and surprise doesn't give you advantage.So my question is this : If even a rogue can't do a Sneak Attack on an opponent who is deceived into thinking they're an ally without extenuating circumstances (somehow acquiring advantage first), why should any ole character be able to improvise a sneak attack with a surprise round?Just to put a finer point on that, the rogue's Sneak Attack is assumed to apply during a surprise round because the designers are assuming that if you surprise a creature, you're hidden from them, and already have advantage from attacking out of Hiding. So, that supports the case that surprise assumes Hiding, not Deception.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jon Gilliam, post: 8039933, member: 6920404"] Returning to the case where you're adjacent to an opponent who you've deceived into believing you're an ally, and you want to initiate surprise by suddenly attacking. To me, that sounds awfully close to how a rogue's "Sneak Attack" ability is described: "you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe's distraction." I think if the designers had intended sneak attacks to be surprised-based, they would have done that in the rogue's ability. But if you read that ability, surprise doesn't even allow you to do a Sneak Attack. Sneak attacks only apply IF you have advantage on the attack roll on an adjacent enemy, and surprise doesn't give you advantage. So my question is this : If even a rogue can't do a Sneak Attack on an opponent who is deceived into thinking they're an ally without extenuating circumstances (somehow acquiring advantage first), why should any ole character be able to improvise a sneak attack with a surprise round? Just to put a finer point on that, the rogue's Sneak Attack is assumed to apply during a surprise round because the designers are assuming that if you surprise a creature, you're hidden from them, and already have advantage from attacking out of Hiding. So, that supports the case that surprise assumes Hiding, not Deception. [/QUOTE]

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