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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8041827" data-attributes="member: 16814">Nope.&nbsp; Don't think you can speak for my intentions.I've presented you the rules of the game, and the design intent of those rules.&nbsp; I don't really care how you play except that I hope it's fun for you.&nbsp; However, to have a constructive discussion, there needs to be a common ground, and you're addressing the source material in a way it was not meant to be addressed -- it isn't a rule book that delineates all options but rather one that provides a strong general framework and then some specific options.&nbsp; You're looking for the specifics and ignoring the general.&nbsp; This makes sense seeing as how you're coming from AD&amp;D, which wasn't at all like this.&nbsp; 5e has a strong general structure, so doesn't explain all the ways a thing can happen because that's covered under the general structure.&nbsp; When the rule says &quot;the GM determines who's surprised&quot; that's leveraging the general rule.&nbsp; That it then goes on to be specific in terms of hiding doesn't obviate the general rule, it just controls how to handle it when creatures are hiding.&nbsp; The GM can determine who's surprised in other ways as well -- that hasn't been deleted by the following paragraphs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8041827, member: 16814"] Nope. Don't think you can speak for my intentions. I've presented you the rules of the game, and the design intent of those rules. I don't really care how you play except that I hope it's fun for you. However, to have a constructive discussion, there needs to be a common ground, and you're addressing the source material in a way it was not meant to be addressed -- it isn't a rule book that delineates all options but rather one that provides a strong general framework and then some specific options. You're looking for the specifics and ignoring the general. This makes sense seeing as how you're coming from AD&D, which wasn't at all like this. 5e has a strong general structure, so doesn't explain all the ways a thing can happen because that's covered under the general structure. When the rule says "the GM determines who's surprised" that's leveraging the general rule. That it then goes on to be specific in terms of hiding doesn't obviate the general rule, it just controls how to handle it when creatures are hiding. The GM can determine who's surprised in other ways as well -- that hasn't been deleted by the following paragraphs. [/QUOTE]

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