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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9775534" data-attributes="member: 6795602">I'm going to look at 3 rounds.In 4e a lower level Fighter would typically do 1[W] + mod damage with at will.  2[W] + mod damage with encounter and 3[W] + mod damage with daily.  Most would offer some small rider.  If there was a particularly strong rider then the damage might be lowered.So a level 1 Fighter floor would be something like 4[W]+3mod over 3 rounds (1 encounter 2 at-will).  The ceiling would be something like 6[W]+3mod (1 daily, 1 encounter, 1 at will.  That's maybe ~33% more damage output (depends a bit on weapon and str mod).A 5e Fighter with action surge is similar.  3[W]+3mod (attacks).  And the ceiling is 4[W]+4mod (attacks+action surge).  That's ~33% more damage for the ceiling.  Specific subclasses may get a little more.Even 5e Paladins, their ceiling in 3 rounds is only about twice as much as their floor (assuming all spell slots go to smite).  It varies a bit by level but a bit above or below that remains fairly consistent for most of the game.  (Thinking for 2014.  For 2024, the ceiling from smiting over 3 rounds is a bit less.).tldr: the damage difference between floor and ceiling for 4e and 5e PC's using resources like action surge or smite or typical at will, encounter, daily powers is usually much less than ceiling = 200% of the floor.  I think probably at most it should be 150% to 160% of the floor.  Doing 1/2 output feels bad, doing 2/3 feels manageable IMO.The bigger issue is full casters that output probably 5x their floor over 3 rounds if desired (concentration helps here).  But it really incentivizes long rests too much IMO.  Caster floor probably needs raised and ceiling probably needs lowered.  One way to do this might be assign each spell a resource cost and only give the caster so much resource for the encounter.  Possibly allow him to go a little beyond that limit to a certain threshold for some negative effect.</blockquote>

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