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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 9776622" data-attributes="member: 7635">Have you seen the BECMI'S system? It makes 5e's system look like elementary school math..4e MATH was bad. It was fixed come MM2. That's not a failing of Challenge rating though. Still rather have 72 pages of errata than TSR saying "I don't know, what do you think we are, game designers?!"It was a result of the arms race between PCs using broken splats and monsters designed not to die before they can even act. Then again, D&D since the 1980s didn't view combat as a fail state so they wanted fights that were dynamic and lasted a few rounds. The whole premise of this thread has been that D&D combat ends up ac race to nuke the monsters before they can act and how monsters don't advance quick enough to meet the churn of splats and charops. I sound like a broken record, but there is an edition where PCs don't get builds and nova potential, HP isn't inflated and monster math stays relevant. BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia. Every other edition ends up in the arms race you're complaining about in some form or another.</blockquote>