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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steampunkette" data-source="post: 9777914" data-attributes="member: 6796468">It's a thing, yeah. After level 5 you get two Actions per turn. One of which can be a Daily or Encounter. The other of which can be an At-Will, such as Disengage, a Weapon Attack, Grappling, Etc.Which skews these up to:Floor at level 1: 2x+2x+1x+1x = 6xFloor at level 5: 3x+3x+2x+2x = 10xCeiling at level 6: 6x+3x+3x+2x = 14x (3/day)But... also taking into account at level 5 your Proficiency increases to +3, so your encounter powers go up one.Floor at level 1: 2x+2x+1x+1x = 6xFloor at level 5-8: 4x+4x+2x+2x = 12xCeiling at level 6-8: 6x+4x+4x+2x = 16x (3/day)And then this advances at 9th, 13th, and 17thFloor at level 9-11: 5x+5x+2x+2x = 14xCeiling at level 9-11: 7x+5x+5x+2x = 19x (3/day)Floor at level 13-16: 6x+6x+2x+2x = 16xCeiling at level 13-16: 8x+6x+6x+2x = 22x (3/day)Floor at level 17-20: 7x+7x+2x+2x = 18xCeiling at level 17-20: 9x+7x+7x+2x = 25x (3/day)But that's still an expectation of each character being able to put a floor throughput of 145 on average at level 17-20. A party of 4 would throw out about 704 damage over the course of a 4 round combat. Just using encounters only. (Assuming everyone is just dealing as much damage as possible)That's enough to take down an Adult Red Dragon in about a round and a half if the dragon is able to be hit by everyone's attacks and can't resist any of the damage dealt. (256 HP Dragon) Assuming maxed attack stat (+5), maxed out magic weapon bonus (+3) at 17-20 you've got a +14 to hit and an Adult Red Dragon has an AC of 19, so a 5 or higher hits.Missing with a weapon swing would hurt your damage a bit (about 13ish damage) but missing your Encounter drops 35 average. Missing with a daily is 44. To average things out, though, let's just call it a 20% damage loss total, putting individual floor damage to 116.So it would probably wind up being a 3-5 round combat if the Dragon were to fly around. If there were additional targets in the encounter, they'd also be soaking up a decent portion of those attacks, as well.If everyone drops their Dailies, the damage jumps to 176 each and 704 as a group. Drop 20% for miss chance and it's 140 and 560.These are also average (4.5) numbers. The actual range is 82-208 individually (65 and 166 with the 20% taken off) and 328-832 over the 4 rounds for the party (262-665 with the 20% taken off)However.Some of that straight throughput is also going to be lost to your class's role. While a Blaster is meant to put out 25x damage at level 17+ if they drop their daily, that damage is meant to be spread across an AoE rather than spiking a single target with it, so the actual value will probably be closer to 20x for ceiling and 13x for floor. So 122 floor and 154 ceiling.A Support character is similarly going to be losing some of that strict throughput into healing or helping allies. And both of them may try to pin the dragon down so a Tank can get close enough to reasonably fight it through control effects. So, again, 20x and 13x.And some of that Tank's throughput is going to be eaten up by buffing their own defenses, self healing, or control, as well, in order to keep the dragon from attacking the other party members. Drop that thing down to 20x and 13x, too.So one tanky fighter, a supporty cleric, a blasty wizard, and a skirmishing rogue is looking at more of a 511 floor and 638 ceiling before factoring AC, resistances, etc. With AC involved that's 408 and 510.So a single CR 17 dragon is not going to stomp a party of level 17+ adventurers as a solo encounter, but it will probably consume one or two dailies over a 4 round fight. Two CR 17 dragons are going to be a significant threat, though. Or a CR 17 dragon with some minions cluttering up a battlefield.Meanwhile the CR 24 Ancient Red Dragon is gonna be more of a problem. With AC 22 and 546hp on average, we're looking at a 35% damage loss instead of 20%, so bringing the encounter 4 round damage down to 94 for one character and 377 for the whole party. With dailies that's down to 114 individually and 457. Not enough to kill him without crossing the 5 round thresh hold even if everyone's throughput is 100% damage focused unless they land some important crits.With a more reasonable party spread, though... that damage is dropping to 332 and 414 over 4 rounds. You might need the whole party to Catch Their Breath and drop another set of encounters in rounds after 5.And god forbid that Ancient Red Dragon flies around and picks at the party to any degree. You'll be at this all day. Downing healing potions and stuff!Can you imagine? A CR 24 Ancient Red Dragon being a serious challenge to a high level party for more than 5 rounds?Kinda sorta not really? The 5MWD issue isn't that fights are over quickly, it's that fights are over quickly -and- the party doesn't have the resources to continue on so they immediately take a long rest.Dailies are more attractive than encounter powers, obviously, but if the floor is high enough that people feel fairly confident about continuing, they can. It also means that easier encounters won't require big power use which encourages saving dailies for later.This is a misunderstanding. You have 3 daily uses per day, 1/encounter. But you wind up knowing 6 different options to use with those 3 slots. I apologize for miscommunicating that, before!(Also characters who prepare spells or abilities could prepare 6 each day, and have a list of options instead of being stuck with the first 6 they pick. Everyone else needs to spend some downtime to retrain their stuff)</blockquote>

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