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5E Through a 4E Lens
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<blockquote data-quote="Pauper" data-source="post: 7657420" data-attributes="member: 17607"><p>I don't really see that the examples provided are a valid 'reformatting' of the 5e power into 4e -- they still use 5e terminology (components, casting time, range in feet rather than squares).</p><p></p><p>A better re-flavoring of the Fire Bolt cantrip would look something like this:</p><p></p><p>Fire Bolt -- Wizard Attack 1</p><p>"You hurl a mote of fire at your target."</p><p>At-Will * Arcane, Implement, Fire</p><p>Standard Action - Range 24</p><p>Target: One creature</p><p>Attack: Intelligence vs. AC</p><p>Hit: 1d10 fire damage</p><p>(level 5 = 2d10 fire damage)</p><p>(level 11 = 3d10 fire damage)</p><p>(level 17 = 4d10 fire damage)</p><p></p><p>Special: An inflammable object hit by this power ignites unless it is being worn or carried.</p><p></p><p>Also, the 'cast a spell' actions are weird -- better to reformat each spell as a 4e power:</p><p></p><p>Thunderwave -- Wizard Attack 1</p><p>"A wave of thunderous force sweeps out from you."</p><p>Daily - Arcane, Implement, Thunder</p><p>Standard Action - Close Blast 3</p><p>Target: Creatures in burst</p><p>Attack: Intelligence vs AC</p><p>Hit: 2d8 thunder damage, and the target is pushed 2 squares</p><p>Special: Unsecured objects fully in the burst are pushed 2 squares. The power emits an audible boom of thunder which can be heard out to 60 squares.</p><p></p><p>Then create a separate power to use to 'recharge' your spell powers:</p><p></p><p>Spell Power -- Wizard Utility 2</p><p>At Will * Arcane</p><p>Free Action - Personal</p><p></p><p>Effect: Recharge a level 1 Wizard Arcane daily attack power</p><p></p><p>Special: You may use this power twice per day. At 3rd level or higher, you may use this power three times per day.</p><p></p><p>(The level 6 version of this utility would allow you to recharge a level 1 or 5 power, with a bonus of some kind if the wizard chooses to recharge a level 1 power.)</p><p></p><p>--</p><p>This reformatting points out a number of changes from 4e to 5e:</p><p></p><p>- 5e uses a lot of 'factors of 30' in spell ranges (30 feet, 60 feet, 120 feet, etc.); this is in contract to 4e which mainly used 'factors of 5'. My feeling is that 4e made more sense on a battlemap, since the basic unit (the square) was 5 feet and easily visible on the map. 5e's change appears mainly useful to put spell and weapon ranges into multiples of a character's expected move distance, which works better for 'theater of the mind'. ("Oh, that spell has 30 ft range? You need to move toward the monster before you can cast it.")</p><p></p><p>- 4e largely dismissed with 'flavor' effects such as the audible 'boom' effect of a thunderwave, or at least left it to the DM to determine how to adjudicate them. 5e seems to want to use a lot more 'rules as flavor', which can be a good or bad thing depending on your desire to use these effects.</p><p></p><p>- 4e's implements were an integral part of the spellcasting classes, since the implements provided necessary boosts to attack that were baked-in to the system (this is why the example spell above has an implement entry even though the actual spell in 5e doesn't require a material component/arcane focus). 5e returns to the 'component' system, where certain classes are restricted in needing to keep a hand free for spellcasting while others are not so restricted (check out the paladin spell list, for example, and see how many spells in that list have solely verbal components).</p><p></p><p>- 4e was a system focused less on damage and more on status effects (though especially at the end of 4e, it was certainly possible to create build that did massive damage); 5e has largely reversed this, returning damage to primacy and relegating status effects to specific types of attacks (poison, paralysis) and/or specific magic spells.</p><p></p><p>As for 'bloodied', it is such a useful tool for communicating hit point status without actually referencing hit points that our group has incorporated it into Pathfinder.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pauper, post: 7657420, member: 17607"] I don't really see that the examples provided are a valid 'reformatting' of the 5e power into 4e -- they still use 5e terminology (components, casting time, range in feet rather than squares). A better re-flavoring of the Fire Bolt cantrip would look something like this: Fire Bolt -- Wizard Attack 1 "You hurl a mote of fire at your target." At-Will * Arcane, Implement, Fire Standard Action - Range 24 Target: One creature Attack: Intelligence vs. AC Hit: 1d10 fire damage (level 5 = 2d10 fire damage) (level 11 = 3d10 fire damage) (level 17 = 4d10 fire damage) Special: An inflammable object hit by this power ignites unless it is being worn or carried. Also, the 'cast a spell' actions are weird -- better to reformat each spell as a 4e power: Thunderwave -- Wizard Attack 1 "A wave of thunderous force sweeps out from you." Daily - Arcane, Implement, Thunder Standard Action - Close Blast 3 Target: Creatures in burst Attack: Intelligence vs AC Hit: 2d8 thunder damage, and the target is pushed 2 squares Special: Unsecured objects fully in the burst are pushed 2 squares. The power emits an audible boom of thunder which can be heard out to 60 squares. Then create a separate power to use to 'recharge' your spell powers: Spell Power -- Wizard Utility 2 At Will * Arcane Free Action - Personal Effect: Recharge a level 1 Wizard Arcane daily attack power Special: You may use this power twice per day. At 3rd level or higher, you may use this power three times per day. (The level 6 version of this utility would allow you to recharge a level 1 or 5 power, with a bonus of some kind if the wizard chooses to recharge a level 1 power.) -- This reformatting points out a number of changes from 4e to 5e: - 5e uses a lot of 'factors of 30' in spell ranges (30 feet, 60 feet, 120 feet, etc.); this is in contract to 4e which mainly used 'factors of 5'. My feeling is that 4e made more sense on a battlemap, since the basic unit (the square) was 5 feet and easily visible on the map. 5e's change appears mainly useful to put spell and weapon ranges into multiples of a character's expected move distance, which works better for 'theater of the mind'. ("Oh, that spell has 30 ft range? You need to move toward the monster before you can cast it.") - 4e largely dismissed with 'flavor' effects such as the audible 'boom' effect of a thunderwave, or at least left it to the DM to determine how to adjudicate them. 5e seems to want to use a lot more 'rules as flavor', which can be a good or bad thing depending on your desire to use these effects. - 4e's implements were an integral part of the spellcasting classes, since the implements provided necessary boosts to attack that were baked-in to the system (this is why the example spell above has an implement entry even though the actual spell in 5e doesn't require a material component/arcane focus). 5e returns to the 'component' system, where certain classes are restricted in needing to keep a hand free for spellcasting while others are not so restricted (check out the paladin spell list, for example, and see how many spells in that list have solely verbal components). - 4e was a system focused less on damage and more on status effects (though especially at the end of 4e, it was certainly possible to create build that did massive damage); 5e has largely reversed this, returning damage to primacy and relegating status effects to specific types of attacks (poison, paralysis) and/or specific magic spells. As for 'bloodied', it is such a useful tool for communicating hit point status without actually referencing hit points that our group has incorporated it into Pathfinder. [/QUOTE]
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