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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 9353262" data-attributes="member: 72555">For that Vrock, using the summon demon in combat is actually negative danger.You have a 70% chance of doing nothing, and a 30% chance of summoning a creature which adds almost 0 to the encounter HP budget.  If you did this turn one, by turn 3 you (and it) are dead, giving you 2+2.5 = 4.5 total actions.70% chance of 2 actions, 30% chance of 4.5 actions is 2.75 actions.  Even if the summoned Vrock got a guaranteed 3 actions (went after you in initiative order, say) we still get 2.9 total actions.The summoner Vrock is only strong if it gets lucky or it is given a round to prepare.I guess I should do the same math for a succibi swarm.  You get 20 of them, how does that compare to 3 whip actions?The raw damage of the succubi swarm is 6.5*20=130, over 6 rounds that is 780.  That is quite decent for an action, but the accuracy is only +5.The real threat is the 20 DC 15 Wisdom saves per round.  If you have a "mere" +10 to your saves this is a 20% chance to fail for each one of them; a party of 4 all of whom has +10 to wisdom saves get charmed the first round by this swarm of succubi.OTOH, I guess anyone who isn't immune to charm is already screwed.</blockquote>