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5E: Whips?
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<blockquote data-quote="SmokeyCriminal" data-source="post: 7238785" data-attributes="member: 6876146"><p>So I was playing a Thief that used a Whip (no Prof) and for the first 4 lvls it was going really bad. I'd try to swing over a pit with the Whip and i'd roll a Whip attack with no prof and fail. I'd use my Attack to Disarm and id roll (Whip attack vs. Athletics/Acrobatics) and fail. I was failing so much with it that it got to the point that when I mentioned pulling out the Whip the table would give me a look like "Really? Your going to try again? Why are you putting yourself through this?"</p><p></p><p>But my DM had an idea to incorporate the Thief Fast Hands and Second-Story Work Features with the Whip and turn the Whip into an extension of the Features and make it more like a tool for the Thief.</p><p></p><p>Disclaimer: The rest of the party was very strong and there was no fear of the Thief overshadowing anyone's anything, or had any desire for Whips themselves so maybe that's why it seemed okay to give the Thief so much utility with the Whip. </p><p></p><p>--- First she looked at Second-Story Works (And my STR dump stat I'm sure) and said "When you can reasonably use your Whip in combination with Second-Story Works to climb up to your regular movement speed, you won't need to roll.</p><p></p><p>Basically the first 30 feet of climbing the side of a house, tree, cliff with outcroppings of rock or branches, you can do. Unless I specifically say you can't, assume you can."</p><p></p><p>--- Then she looked at the long distance jump and said "When you can reasonably use your Whip in combination with a long jump to swing, you can clear 30 feet, no roll. Unless I specifically say you can't, assume you can"</p><p></p><p>---Then she looked at Fast Hands and said that I could Bonus Action Interact With Objects in combination with the Whip. </p><p></p><p>"Grab keys, mugs, weapons, potions, stuff like that, and pull them towards yourself. Think of the Whip as a 10-15 foot grappling hook/sticky hand. Unless I specifically say you can't, assume you can."</p><p></p><p>---Then she said I could Bonus Action steal Objects worn off of people using (Sleight of Hand) using the Whip combined with Fast Hands. </p><p></p><p>--- Then she said I could Bonus Action Disarm using the Whip in combination with Fast Hands using (Sleight of Hand). oh ya, there was exceptions. Large creatures or two-handed weapons gave me disadvantage, no shield, and if a creature had a shield I couldn't disarm their weapon (The shield was in the way?) and EVERY creature had a back-up weapon it was usually a down grade, tho. Some weapons had wrist straps like maces which was basically her letting me know no disarming for this NPC, sorry.</p><p></p><p>She said disarming is basically stealing and you're the Thief so it fits thematically. I thought that a Bonus Action Disarm might be too strong, but she said that if I was crazy enough to run towards a skirmish and TRY to steal someones weapon when I could be using my Bonus Action to get away and hide with my Expertise in Stealth, and soon Supreme Sneak, and not be targeted, and get Advantage on my attack then I must REALLY want that weapon. Anyways she said it says in Fast Hands that you can Disarm a trap so close enough. oh ya, there was exceptions. </p><p></p><p>--- Then I guess she figured that Trip and Trap sounded close enough because she said I could use the Whip in combination with Fast Hands to use Shove to knock prone a Creature using Dex or Str Athletics because the weapon has Finesse. Large creatures gave me Disadvantage, can only trip size Large or smaller. more then two legs creatures can't be tripped.</p><p></p><p> I thought this was too strong because it would basically give me Advantage for my Sneak Attack and the rest of the party all the time. But then she said it would also be keeping me from running and hiding to get the same Advantage which is what I should be doing since I'm a Thief. Plus she said that the Pally already has Shield Master and the Bear Barb GWM has Reckless and don't need any help getting Advantage, if anything it was going to annoy the Sorlock because it would be another creature he can't Agonizing Blast. Also she said she wanted me to feel less reliant on my allies for Sneak Attack so that I'd be less reluctant to climb up things and be out of reach from their aid in case I was attacked and on my own (which happened often once I started using Second-Story Works regularly).</p><p></p><p>--- Then she looks at Uncanny Dodge and said whenever you take fall damage you can use Uncanny Dodge in combination with the Whip to halve the damage when possible.</p><p></p><p>She said it's like in the movies where the guy whips a branch and it breaks so he still falls but not as hard, but only when its reasonable. She would usually allow us to save for half damage when we fell so this would potentially allow me to save for 1/4 damage. It seemed like a lot to me, but she said by then she'll have bigger problems dealing with the Sorlock twin hasting a smite monster and a rage beasts and dropping double fireballs, and isn't bothered by me surviving falls, plus she said the damage will be made up by the fact that I'll be falling a lot more then the rest of the party (Which was very true, I must have taken falling damage about 5 times more often then anyone else in the party) so it evens out.</p><p></p><p>--- Finally, even tho I don't think it ever came up, she gave me Proficiency with the Whip, she said I've used it enough times so I might as well get the Proficiency. But honestly I can't think of a time I actually used it to attack.</p><p></p><p>I don't know if this would work for the Whip in and of itself because of how other Classes would interact with it. But for the Thief it was pretty great and balanced, because it was always a choice of being sneaky and careful or being flashy and bold. You don't have enough Actions to do both, but as a Rogue you can switch from one style to the other every turn without issue. I think overall I ended up being a little less effective Damage wise compared to playing the Rogue the "right" way. But the cool/fun factor, which is already pretty high for the Thief, was way off the charts with the Whip, maybe even TOO fun. The over-all damage trade off and deliberately putting myself in dangerous situations was completely 100% worth it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SmokeyCriminal, post: 7238785, member: 6876146"] So I was playing a Thief that used a Whip (no Prof) and for the first 4 lvls it was going really bad. I'd try to swing over a pit with the Whip and i'd roll a Whip attack with no prof and fail. I'd use my Attack to Disarm and id roll (Whip attack vs. Athletics/Acrobatics) and fail. I was failing so much with it that it got to the point that when I mentioned pulling out the Whip the table would give me a look like "Really? Your going to try again? Why are you putting yourself through this?" But my DM had an idea to incorporate the Thief Fast Hands and Second-Story Work Features with the Whip and turn the Whip into an extension of the Features and make it more like a tool for the Thief. Disclaimer: The rest of the party was very strong and there was no fear of the Thief overshadowing anyone's anything, or had any desire for Whips themselves so maybe that's why it seemed okay to give the Thief so much utility with the Whip. --- First she looked at Second-Story Works (And my STR dump stat I'm sure) and said "When you can reasonably use your Whip in combination with Second-Story Works to climb up to your regular movement speed, you won't need to roll. Basically the first 30 feet of climbing the side of a house, tree, cliff with outcroppings of rock or branches, you can do. Unless I specifically say you can't, assume you can." --- Then she looked at the long distance jump and said "When you can reasonably use your Whip in combination with a long jump to swing, you can clear 30 feet, no roll. Unless I specifically say you can't, assume you can" ---Then she looked at Fast Hands and said that I could Bonus Action Interact With Objects in combination with the Whip. "Grab keys, mugs, weapons, potions, stuff like that, and pull them towards yourself. Think of the Whip as a 10-15 foot grappling hook/sticky hand. Unless I specifically say you can't, assume you can." ---Then she said I could Bonus Action steal Objects worn off of people using (Sleight of Hand) using the Whip combined with Fast Hands. --- Then she said I could Bonus Action Disarm using the Whip in combination with Fast Hands using (Sleight of Hand). oh ya, there was exceptions. Large creatures or two-handed weapons gave me disadvantage, no shield, and if a creature had a shield I couldn't disarm their weapon (The shield was in the way?) and EVERY creature had a back-up weapon it was usually a down grade, tho. Some weapons had wrist straps like maces which was basically her letting me know no disarming for this NPC, sorry. She said disarming is basically stealing and you're the Thief so it fits thematically. I thought that a Bonus Action Disarm might be too strong, but she said that if I was crazy enough to run towards a skirmish and TRY to steal someones weapon when I could be using my Bonus Action to get away and hide with my Expertise in Stealth, and soon Supreme Sneak, and not be targeted, and get Advantage on my attack then I must REALLY want that weapon. Anyways she said it says in Fast Hands that you can Disarm a trap so close enough. oh ya, there was exceptions. --- Then I guess she figured that Trip and Trap sounded close enough because she said I could use the Whip in combination with Fast Hands to use Shove to knock prone a Creature using Dex or Str Athletics because the weapon has Finesse. Large creatures gave me Disadvantage, can only trip size Large or smaller. more then two legs creatures can't be tripped. I thought this was too strong because it would basically give me Advantage for my Sneak Attack and the rest of the party all the time. But then she said it would also be keeping me from running and hiding to get the same Advantage which is what I should be doing since I'm a Thief. Plus she said that the Pally already has Shield Master and the Bear Barb GWM has Reckless and don't need any help getting Advantage, if anything it was going to annoy the Sorlock because it would be another creature he can't Agonizing Blast. Also she said she wanted me to feel less reliant on my allies for Sneak Attack so that I'd be less reluctant to climb up things and be out of reach from their aid in case I was attacked and on my own (which happened often once I started using Second-Story Works regularly). --- Then she looks at Uncanny Dodge and said whenever you take fall damage you can use Uncanny Dodge in combination with the Whip to halve the damage when possible. She said it's like in the movies where the guy whips a branch and it breaks so he still falls but not as hard, but only when its reasonable. She would usually allow us to save for half damage when we fell so this would potentially allow me to save for 1/4 damage. It seemed like a lot to me, but she said by then she'll have bigger problems dealing with the Sorlock twin hasting a smite monster and a rage beasts and dropping double fireballs, and isn't bothered by me surviving falls, plus she said the damage will be made up by the fact that I'll be falling a lot more then the rest of the party (Which was very true, I must have taken falling damage about 5 times more often then anyone else in the party) so it evens out. --- Finally, even tho I don't think it ever came up, she gave me Proficiency with the Whip, she said I've used it enough times so I might as well get the Proficiency. But honestly I can't think of a time I actually used it to attack. I don't know if this would work for the Whip in and of itself because of how other Classes would interact with it. But for the Thief it was pretty great and balanced, because it was always a choice of being sneaky and careful or being flashy and bold. You don't have enough Actions to do both, but as a Rogue you can switch from one style to the other every turn without issue. I think overall I ended up being a little less effective Damage wise compared to playing the Rogue the "right" way. But the cool/fun factor, which is already pretty high for the Thief, was way off the charts with the Whip, maybe even TOO fun. The over-all damage trade off and deliberately putting myself in dangerous situations was completely 100% worth it. [/QUOTE]
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