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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 5886010" data-attributes="member: 95493">I liked the nachos comment that came after this but I just wanted to follow it up by asking, is your objection that he said "sooner than normal"?I mean if that one part had been removed would it have been suddenly palatable? How can his comments about it not selling being the reason behind Hasbro or WotC calling for 5e be wrong?Oh, and if it were a Hasbro model to have the game only run 4-6 years that would be applied to its many other games (including board games) and that the WotC staff would be fully aware of this AND that it would be the first thing we heard when 5e was being announced. It wouldn't have been that they made mistakes and alienated part of their demographic, it would have been that Hasbro games have a 4-6 year design model and therefore 5e had to come out instead. Would you retract any part of your explanation if 5e made it to 5-7 years?Also, of course it was non-4e people saying that 4e didn't feel like DnD. As he DID say, 4e people thought it was fun. So, slightly un-self reinforcing I would say as it seems to be the line share of the reasoning why 4e wasn't liked by non-4e people. If we had said that we disliked it because it didn't give us enough cheese, then that would be different.To paragraph 1: I'll agree that 4e went too far in the changes to the game. I'll agree that 3e made changes to the game. I won't agree that 3e fundamentally changed the nature of how DnD was played. It added a number of things, it codified many others - non-weapon proficiencies/skills (If I have been properly informed). As far as I know it left many of the basic and necessary things in place though. It kept around Vancian magic, the basic way attacks were used and resolved. It kept around many of the same terms, abilities, classes, items and, I'll say it, sacred cows of previous editions. I remember when 4e was proposed how many anti-3e people were on the WotC boards giving ideas and suggestions on which cows should be butchered and how. If 5e can do an adequate job of resurrecting those sacred cows then I think it will bring a lot of older gamers back to the new edition.To paragraph 2: As you said in my previous quote, it didn't sell at least as well as Hasbro wanted, or well enough to allow for continued support. 3e was able to do it for 8 years but 4e isn't. *shrug* Sales figures are either non-existent, wrong, biased or incomplete so you can keep asking for them but you aren't going to get them.Oh the topic of DnD as a sports (football) team - You support both by buying their products. You enjoy both in a community more than you would solo. You do identify with both of them about as much by being a fan. And yes, supporting an edition or team isn't really a factor in whether you have fun that week or not. In these ways as well as others (which I went on a tangent about) DnD is exactly like a sports team. Just as with a sports team you can wish they make changes to a line up and they won't listen (or even hear) your suggestions. You can get angry with it while still supporting it. And if you hear your sports team is suddenly closing down or moving to a new city (or new edition) then you can feel betrayed. How is DnD not a sports team?Also, Pirate Cat can you break your NDA if we promise not to tell anyone <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" /> (also is there no good way to @ you?)</blockquote>

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